calvin curry + how to navigate the job search as a junior developer

full transcript

auto-generated from the audio, so expect a few typos. the audio is the source of truth.

What's going on podcast listeners? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to guidance counselor 2.0. I really hope that you enjoy this episode. I wanted to, of course, remind you to please rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast. It would mean the absolute world to me. So take some time out right now. Put this thing on pause. Go rate and review it and come back to listen. If you need to reach me, shoot me an email. TaylorD at vaco.com. If you want to join my texting community, I am doing a ton, ton of sharing of general career advice, job tips, etc. Shoot me a text 615-235-5650.

As always, if you want to follow me on social media, I am doing a ton on Twitter at t-decent-d-e-s-s-e-y-n-connect-screen. I hope you enjoy this podcast episode and thank you again for listening. It means the absolute world to me. But, well, man, I mean, how can I help? I mean, can you run down of kind of, you know, if there's anything I can do or if you have any questions or comments or concerns about the job search? Yeah, so just coming into this out of a boot camp and obviously they're being a certain level of uncertainty around the conditions of our employment in the city due to COVID.

Yeah. Not really sure if companies are in a hiring freeze or what the potential outlook is for that. If it's going to be something that will get better so. Sure. Something that's going to be this way for a long time. As I kind of near the end of the boot camp and I'm starting to really focus on what's next and really touching up on my resume, trying to network, you know, virtually as much as possible. Applying for jobs. I just kind of, I just want to, I guess, get a good idea of what things are looking like out there because I haven't know idea. Yeah.

I mean, I'll first tell you this. I don't know if this is a good thing is a bad thing to say. Like the junior day, side of things is still as competitive as it was before. Okay. Prego. So, I mean, you know, I would say there's, there's definitely some things that you can put into practice. I would say to leverage kind of your name and rise to the top. I mean, the first thing is like, and you know, I've been saying this and to submit up some. What not. Like, like your capstone project at NSS is like the bare minimum now. All right. I mean, I would say, I would say that's the first thing.

I mean, for me, I really truly think now's the time for junior devs to, you know, open up, I say open up their phone book. I don't even know our operator phone book like go through your contacts and and like text people, hey, listen, like, like, you know, is there a nonprofit. And you're network that like needs a needs a website we've done right does or does a nonprofit need like a payment processing. You know, module added so they can like start, you know, selling some things like like there are some specific ways that I think junior developers can like really rise to the top and that's to take on free work.

Now, I know the big thing is right now said not take on free work right. I mean, there's some people that are like don't take on free work. I mean, you know, that, however you stand on that I get it. But I think right now, just at the end of the day, like having just a capstone like if there's a developer who submits their resume to me come out of code school and they have six months of experience helping scale up to nonprofits for their web presidents versus another individual who has done nothing for six months who you think are going to choose. Yeah, exactly.

And so I would say that's the thing is like really uses time to build out your portfolio when I say portfolio like to be able to put on your resume, hey, listen, I helped. You know, widget company ABC, they needed this one module spun up in AWS and Python. And this is what I did right. And for me being able to notate your resume that way is a whole nother thing right a lot of junior devs like put their experiences like at the bottom of the resume. And so it's like for me like if you've done any sort of project work and even your capstone needs to be notated like a normal job.

And that's the biggest thing because a lot of times with junior developers, the resume just it's it's I can't get an idea of what they're wanting to do with the projects they've done, like it needs to be very simply laid out and I have a resume template I can share. Oh, that'd be great. Yeah, that was that was going to be one of my questions for you. Like I said, I was watching the video and then I saw where you put it up on the projector and I was like, I can't see it. Yeah, I really wanted to. Okay. Yeah, that'll be great. Those ones.

So, and I think to. I'm pretty I've gotten pretty bullish, especially with with individuals from a man. I says me I've had a lot of these conversations lately where it's like, you know, how do I how do I network virtually. I mean, I would say that's the biggest question I've gotten day in day out. So I'm going to share my screen with you real quick. Okay. So let's let me know when you see my screen. I got it. All right, sweet. So obviously when you go to NSS, one of the biggest things with NSS is the network. Right. Like more than the teaching, which the teachings top notch more than that.

So I'm not going to have to go to the network. Right. And so not many people know how to leverage that network. And so what I would do is I would search NSS right Nashville software school right. So, again, go to the LinkedIn page, go to the alumni portion. And as you see, there is over 800 people in the greater Nashville area that went to Nashville software school. So, 800 people. Oh, yeah, that's a lot. Right. And so now what I would do is I would go through and I would message and connect with every Nashville software school student that currently has their first job.

Right. So. And so here's another hack for you as well. Most recruiters don't click on your profile unless the title has some of the buzzwords that you're targeting. Right. So again, right here, full stack software developer HTML CS JavaScript. Like that's good. But like like Kevin, what do you want to go on the dot net side of things. Yeah. So for me, if I were you, I would say, you know, aspiring, you know, dot net developer graduating boot camp. And so that way, if I'm running this search on LinkedIn, I can know exactly because like right here full stack developer 2020 computer site. Like I don't know what that person is trying to do.

So that's a great sense. Right. And so what I would do. So this one right here, this individual is at at health stream. I would connect with this individual. I would shoot him a message like hey. Listen, I'm graduating. I'm terrified. Probably like you were. How did you get into health stream. I just contacted this person. We're always looking for good junior devs come out of code school. Okay, great. Can you introduce me. Boom. There's your introduction. Leverage leverage the National software school name right now and and and ever like leverage it. Like this is one of the reasons why you go to the school is the network.

Very true. That is a solid point and I am noting it on 800 of them. For me, it's like a lot of people like how to network. It's like messaging messages those people say, hey, listen, I need. Hey, are you guys hiring? No. Okay, well, who's your manager? Kevin Smith, would you be open to introduce me? Kevin will not hire him. Totally get that. But I'd love to speak with Kevin on what he liked about you when he interviewed you. Gotcha. Hey, Kevin, my name's Calvin. Like, you know, would love to have a phone call with you to see how to better myself with interviewing with companies.

Kevin Smith goes, yeah, absolutely, Calvin. You have a call with Kevin Smith. That's 30 minutes. And you're just asking him questions on how he likes to interview junior developers. Guess what? You're already getting an interview. You're literally having an interview with the manager just by asking, hey, I would love to learn from you how to interview better. Good point. That's good stuff. Because what's going on right now is that we're developers, especially junior developers, have to turn into a recruiter. And listen, y'all chose the path of going in the software engineering for a reason. There's a reason why you're not recruiting, right? And so, so again, I don't, there's, there's this gap.

And so what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to share this information with others so they it can be like, oh, yeah, that actually does make sense. Cause that, cause that's all I do. That's all I do. Hey, so and so. Hey, Calvin, I know Brandon, we'd love to catch up with you. Yeah, man, let's do it. Boom. Warm lead interaction. We hang out for a few minutes. You like me, I like you. Then when you get a position 30 days from now, you're like, ah, I really like catching up with Taylor. Who's a good dude? Let me hit him up. That's exactly what I do day and day out.

I want to be on the top of everybody's mind. But again, not many, I mean, again, I don't expect anyone to know this, which is why I'm trying to record this and share with others. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is a good information that I think that just being so caught up in the whole process of trying to apply for jobs and make it sure that I'm, you know, checking all the boxes off, you know, even though small details, it's something that could be easily be open for me. I would, I would challenge you to stop applying jobs. Okay. I know it's a crazy, crazy thought you like, great.

That makes me very uncomfortable. Yeah. I'm listening. I would spend the time that you are doing applying the job drain and then leave and try to connect with the individuals at the companies. Okay. Right. So let's say you see, ask me what your company has a job opening for a.net developer, right? It doesn't clarify junior senior, whatever. What I would do is I would go to LinkedIn, go to the search bar, go to Acme Woodget Company and so that in try, search, go through the filters, find the people in Nashville. And then DM those people in Nashville. Hey, so and so saw where you have a job posting up on your website for, for a developer, would you guys consider myself?

Here's, here's my information. Well, actually, we're not, we're not really looking for somebody for your caliber. Totally fine. Totally get it. Would love to connect with you and keep in touch. Absolutely. Boom. There you go. You have made more intentional interactions in that than just submitting your resume blind line. The goal is to get in touch with somebody. Okay. But again, it takes time, right? I mean, this job seeking right now isn't something where like you were. you wake up at, you know, you get up, you crush some coffee. Yeah. Maybe read a book on the back porch actually is too hot right now. No one's going back porch.

And then you're like watching some Netflix and then like you get on you know, I'm feeling pretty good today. I'm going to get on, I'm going to get on LinkedIn for an hour. Yeah. Like this is, it is a full time job. You get up in the morning, have some coffee, get on your computer. And if I were you, I'd go through 800 and 14 of these NSS individuals who have a current job right now and try to get connected with every single person. Now, a lot of people are like, well, that is extremely overwhelming. That's 800 people. Just try to have this. You and I.

One interaction a day. That's it. Just one. Now, what that looks like is your mornings are going to be spent DMing people. And then your afternoons are going to be calls. Okay. Exactly what I do is recruit every single morning. I spend all morning DMing people on dice on LinkedIn. Hey, listen, I love to be your friend. Please talk to me. And then if they go, sure, I'll talk to you fine. That calls in the afternoon. And then what happens? You do this consistently for about three months. Dude, that is 90 people in your network. You have had intentional conversation at least at least 90.

Yeah, minimum. 90 people you have added to your network. And quite frankly, it's a lot of just DMing people and having one phone call. You really want to get crazy. Have two today. And if you want to turn into a full fledger recruiter, have three and then call me after 90 days and you can come recruit a big. I appreciate it. I appreciate the job offer. Yeah. No, that's awesome. And that's a really cool strategy. Just thinking about reversing my approach for that. I never really thought about that. That's really cool. Because it's not normal. Yeah. Everyone's just like, I'm going to hate this term.

It's so crude, but spray and pray. You're just going to resume all around. And you're not going to, I mean, listen, man, like you have a fantastic personality. Everybody I talked about. And it says it has an incredible personality. You guys are engaging. You guys care about what you do. Kind, consider it. You want a network. Like you're not going to, you're not going to have that through a video call or through just a resume, just a blanket resume. Cement. Like, like you're going to have that through these calls. And so again, it's, and then after finishing a call, always ask for something. It, in start being comfortable with asking for things.

Right. So it's like you, so you talk with, let's say you talk with so and so in health strength. Hey, listen, want to learn more about how, like what was the interview style? All right. What were your biggest fears graduating? That's okay. Great. Can you introduce me to your manager? No, I can't do that. We have a policy totally fine. Can you get me connected with another developer on your team? Maybe your senior developer because I'd love to be mentored. Sure, I can do that. That's awesome. But always try to ask, right? You always want the warm leads, always. You never want to go cold into something.

Yeah. That makes, that makes a lot of sense. Now, it's more work, right? I mean, I'm telling you, don't submit your resume all over the place. You know, like, great. This is harder. It is harder, but it's going to get you a job faster. It makes, I will tell you this. There's only about six people I've told this to. So I appreciate that. I think initially, like my thought was kind of like, huh, it's unconventional, but at the same time, it's those unconventional methods that's going to separate you from everyone else. Especially right now. Everyone's getting asked the same questions, right? I mean, if I have somebody that hits me up, if I'm a manager and a junior developer hits me up and wants to see how I interview or you kidding me?

That's going to absolutely change. I mean, I'll be like, I love this. I love this guy, bro. Like who is this person wanting to seek out counsel on how to interview better? No one's doing that. No one. And it's such a warm lead to man. No one's going to turn you down. Hey, I want to get better. Can you talk to me for 15 minutes, right? Like no one's going to be like, pass. Yeah, yeah. No, that's good stuff. Oh, that's that's been really helpful. But that was a lot more than I was thinking that I was going to give from this, not to say anything, you know, but you know, no, no, that was great.

Yeah. So I mean, I definitely need to refactor my approach with networking. Yeah. I mean, I've done, I'd say somewhat of due diligence with reaching out only. Yeah. I found that work for companies that I've applied for. But doing it this way, I think would definitely be more effective and would allow me to reach more people. So you know, even if there's an opportunity that I'm not thinking of, they may think of me for it before I even understand what it is. So that is awesome. And then and then what's what's your email right now? I'll just go ahead and send you the template. Yeah.

It's Calvin Curry to two at gmail.com. Yeah. She sent it to you. Awesome. Okay. Um, another question that I was going to ask you, um, just with regards to resumes, um, do you have any, I guess, opinion on a Canva resume versus just like a, a word document? Yeah. Uh, word doc. Okay. You know, I know, I mean, Canvas, you know, kind of gaining some traction. I mean, I'm starting to start to hear it a lot more. Um, I mean, I think it's a way to. There's a lot of resume templates out there, right? Words got some Canvas got some. I have my own and I'm not saying, I mean, listen, like you can look at mine, like this is terrible.

I'm not using it totally. Right. I'm not saying my way is a highway, but I think companies right now, if I can't specifically read immediately, either what projects you've done, what are you working on? And there's too much fluff. I'm going to reject it. Like really black and white straight forward, easy to read. You know, you have, you know, the three things I wanted to resume are like the summary of each project you've done. Right? So you have three side hustles going on. Um, and so essentially, out of those three things you want, summary of the project, you want specific tools you use to solve the project, right?

That next door, the point and Azure or whatever. And then for buzzword tracking, I have the technologies used for each project. That's a. Okay. Nothing too fancy. But the things though is like, you have fancy, nothing fancy. I reject them because like, I don't have time. Higher majors right now, like to put in perspective, I went from dealing with about 10 developers. At any given time, it's like 50 overnight. Wow. Because of COVID. And so like, I don't have time to try to like, just because your resume is pretty to the high. If I can't figure you out, I'm going to move on. Yeah, understood.

Okay. Yeah, I just wasn't sure if, um, if what kind of impact that would have on, you know, someone looking at it or versus it being scanned. Um, but that makes sense. I was kind of leaning towards the word document anyway. I had a can of version of it, but I may refract into that one as well. Okay. Um, I know it's we've gone past the time that we have, um, not that you got things to do. So I definitely don't want to hold you, but, um, I appreciate the feedback.