the power of branding and networking w/ ken wheeler

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Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to guidance counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had guidance counselors in middle school. We had guidance counselors in high school, but we didn't really have guidance counselors in college. And now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. So that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, tailor at vacovac.com is how to get and touch me old-fashioned email social media at TDSNTD-E-S-S-E-Y-N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. I hope you enjoy the episode. Ken, let's give the people what they want. Who are you? What are you doing? I'm just some dude. And we'll go from there. What do you do, Ken? I make beats. I make a right JavaScript. Yeah, you do. In that order. Yeah, a while ago, I started writing code.

I made some popular open source libraries. And then did a little speaking, couple conferences. And more recently, I've been working on, I mean, I always kind of did music stuff, but I've been working on some music software and things like that. Nice. So my question to you, Ken. So I don't know. I actually don't know much about you. Okay. I hired you from afar. How did you get into code? What prompted you to get into code? My mom told me I needed to get a job. For real. Uh huh. Yeah, but why code, man? Like what? Were you interested in like were you a video game guy?

Like what? Like, like, what? Um, you into it. I was really into it when I was a kid, right? And I think that like back in the day, you see these like visual basic, right? Like AOL programs to like kick your friends offline kind of thing. And then I made games and stuff like that. And then high school came and I was allergic to computers. Um, and then I was a music producer. And when that like failed as a career, right, I'm hanging out like doing this with that, right? Like doing a little construction. Worked in a butcher. I work. I, um, I used to be on the phone line.

so I used to do a lot of like, like weird salesy kind of things. So I worked at a matchmaker, right? So it was like a high end matchmaker and I'd call up and I'd be like, I'd be like, so what would you say is your goals for relationship? I guess we're in a guy. This is a job. So I'm doing stuff like that, right? And, um, you know, I'm just hanging out, chilling still like making beats and everything. Just like, it's not really working out. It's a job, right? I'm like, you got to get a job. So I go on and look in the newspaper.

Right? And I'm looking through and it's like, you know, pest control and that it, it's like, it's like web developer. And I'm like, I know how to do that. I'm like, you know, good enough to be dangerous, right? So yeah, I hit them up and I was like, yeah, they're like, can you do this? I was like, sure. And so I went in and, you know, basically backfilled a bunch of stuff that I said I could do. Like the first time I went in and I was like, you know, basically backfilled a bunch of stuff that I said I could do. Like the first month on the job.

Right? Just got, you know, sharpened the swords a little. Ended up staying there for five years. And then went to another place. Was there for five years, another place there for five years, current place there for four years. Um, so yeah, it was just kind of like this. Like I literally looked in the newspaper and I was like, I know how to do that. Went and did it. And it wasn't, um, it wasn't like this prestigious, um, high comp occupation at the time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, people you just like, slid pizza on the door to and I never talked to them. It was like, you know, like would panel walls, nerds and like printing out pieces of paper, things like that.

Right? It was very much like, I don't know like, late 90s IP kind of feel. Right? Or are you coding in? Like what was your first language that you were coding in for that job? Do you remember? Uh, that was flash. Flash. Flash. Yeah. That was flash. So talk about your open source stuff, right? Because I think that's where you probably started the game, um, you know, a little bit of attention for what you're doing in the dev community. And I'm curious as a recruiter, like what's your suggestion for people to kind of, you know, get in from an open source contribution? Why is it important?

So let's answer your first question. What did you contribute? Like what, what were the ones that obviously got a lot of traction? Um, I mean, slick carousel is probably the biggest one. Then that was the initial one. Um, that was like a jQuery carousel. Okay. Um, And then, you know, you have things like, uh, Webpack dashboard or Okay, Erkel for GraphQL, that kind of thing. Um, And a lot of stuff in between, right? Those are just like the, the higher starred ones. Sure. Um, I remember good. Why would so, so why, I mean, like why, why should devs look at more open source stuff? Like what did that do for your career?

Um, I think today they're playing by different set of rules than we were back then. Explain. So I think back then, right? It was very like back then there was like new stuff coming out every single week. And it was like everybody was like super passionate and engaged about like creating like, um, for example, right? I'll say like react open source. Right? Um, React first comes out and people are like, well, when it first came out, nobody wanted to use it. Um, They're like, this is, the travesty, right? But react comes out and then, you know, people get sold on it. They're like, this is cool, right?

So people are saying like we should write, you know, rewrite our thing in it. Right. The problem was, is that there, you know, the ecosystem was a little light at the time, right? So, uh, it's trailblazing. Right? There's a lot of opportunity to, to fill that in. Right? Like, for example, like I wrote that carousel, right? And there wasn't a carousel on react. So I wrote a react carousel. Just things like that. So it was, it was a lot of opportunity to end. And then it was also like way looser. Yeah. So to say, whereas today, um, you know, open source gets put into like these like foundations and it's funded and there's like, I forget the name of it, but I hear there's like, there's like open source VCs now, right?

There's like companies that like, there, there's like a lot of support, a lot of organization, it's very formalized, a lot of things like that. So, um, yeah, it's definitely a different game these days. Yeah. But I mean, it's still possible worth doing. I think that, um, as far as like my career, it had a huge impact on networking, on my name being out there on opportunities. Right. And then from, from, you know, we talk about putting yourself out there. I mean, obviously, you know, you have a larger than life personality, I would say on Twitter. Um, what, what would be the advice to people? Um, obviously, you're very much yourself.

Very unapologetically yourself. And I absolutely love that about you. And that's why I've admired you from afar. What would you tell people right now who are struggling to maybe be themselves in public, especially on the internet? I know I've talked to a lot of people off air about, they want to get started putting out content, or they want to, you know, put themselves out more, but they're scared. They're worried about other people judge. I mean, you're probably the poster child of them all. I mean, what would you tell those folks to encourage them? I mean, I would say just do it. You know, should I look at your sleep, just do it.

But, um, I think there's, there's pluses and minuses to being yourself. Yeah. Right. Cause, you know, on a minus right, you're like that guy, right? But on a plus, um, you know, a lot of tech is real monoculture. Right. So if you put content out there that is different, I think you probably have a better chance of people being receptive to that. Right. If you have 100 streamers and, you know, doing stuff in the same tone with the same vibe and then you come in, right? Like, um, you know, I had done some like, YouTube series, somebody was like, I've never heard tech explain like this before.

You know, it's good to use it in cursing and things like that. But, oh, but yeah, I think that I think there's definitely room. Yeah. For, you know, a multi faceted diversity and tech and people should be themselves rather than trying, um, strap on the all birds and fit in with the cool kids. There you go. I'm waiting you to throw some shade. Uh, just to some demographic on the live show. Um, so I want, I want to ask too, can because I think, you know, I think a lot of people want to hear from you, especially when it comes to, to their career job search, I mean, what's, what's, what's some advice you have for folks either, either getting started or kind of navigating their career right now.

And, and maybe, maybe what's one thing you would tell a younger can what you know now. I probably tell a younger can to get an MBA and be less myself, but he's why. I'm curious. That's crazy. Why? You know, um, I don't know. Sometimes you look at, uh, peers over the years, right? I guess played it a little bit safer and you wonder like what if. So, so arc. Okay. So this is on the piggyback. You just say, but yourself, do you think you being yourself is maybe hurt you a little bit? I do. Really? Not, not a ton. Sure. But a little bit, right?

Because, you know, and that comes back to like, um, I guess like the idea of professionalism. Sure. Right. Sure. Um, you know, it's, it's not totally negative. It's a given a take, right? So so much doors open, other doors close. And, you know, but as far as networking, since I'm right, my recommendation would be, um, that to go and, and, and, you know, get involved, get in, um, communities, whether that's like Discord or GitHub or conferences or, or meet up, right? Because, um, you're going to, you know, you know, you know, um, you know, and over the years, those people end up at all different kind of places, right?

So it's like, I'm usually sitting here suddenly, um, you're on the market. Uh, you know, if you know, it is infinitely, infinitely easier to get in somewhere, uh, with an endorsement, rather than just going in cold any day, the week. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, now, obviously, renders next week, can, what, what, what are you talking about it, render, curious? So I'm actually talking about SwiftUI, SwiftUI. What is that? What is that? I don't know what that is. Yeah. So, um, it's kind of like the new-ish way to write iOS apps, oh, um, officially, right? There's like, there's like, like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, the React developers to try it.

Um, through a drum machine that I'm building. Are you serious? Yeah. And the drum machine is going to, the drum machine's going to play music NFTs as well. Yeah. So that's, I'm not going to give too much away. I mean, Yeah. First, we're going to have to, you're going to have to come for that content. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be there. You have to be there. I will be there. Um, I mean, you know, I've seen a few of the conference speakers, you know, always make jokes about, you know, an introverted meme on the internet about going to render, but then there's going to be a me on day two, like, in a corner, not talking to anybody.

I think Brandon posted that. I've got his last name. One of the speakers at the conference is here. And, you know, I've become really big on trying to help people navigate meet ups, conferences, because I feel, I mean, first off, we've been at home for two years, right? So, and before that, people struggled networking in general, right? But now people are even more socially overwhelmed. Some of us are more socially overwhelmed. What's kind of, man, just some basic like conference tips and tricks that, that you could give folks. I had a live show yesterday that kind of went over mine, but I'm interested to hear yours.

If, if, if, if you have any. Um, you know, I think that it, it, uh, it's kind of a thing that everybody has to be on, right? There was this one thing that they did at the conference. So, I thought it was great where, um, if, you know, people go and have these little sidebar chats, right? And usually it's like, you know, four or five people in a circle, right? And, um, what they say is don't close the circle, right? Leave a, leave a slice open so somebody can walk up in, right? And then I think that, um, you know, probably not a hundred percent of the time, but more often than not, um, if you go up to somebody and be like, hey, I like to talk and then ask a question about it.

Or you say, hey, I did not like your talk. And here's why, right? They'll sit there and they'll talk to you, right? I mean, I don't know about the reception on that, like the call, somebody came up to me. I'd be like, I was like, really gone, but if you do, right? Like, like, like, people, you know, generally speaking, like, if, if speakers come off after the, right? Right. At the break, go try and engage the speakers, because other people are going to be engaging the speakers. And it's like, okay, man, I really like music. I make music and the other guys over here, and he's like, oh, I make music too.

And then, you know, pretty soon it's a little music crew over there at the, the snack table talking about music and beats, but yeah, I think it's, you know, just insert yourself into that. And, and that's helpful. Um, it's all about, like, if, if I were to just go to a conference, right, like, I might not even watch the talks. I'm literally there for the whole way, track. Yeah. It's the most important part. I, I've literally, you know, I thought about, I was like, how do I mean, I guess you need something to be the anchor, but I'm like, there needs to be a conference, the hallway track conference.

I'm trying. Where it's like, they just play house music and low five beats and everyone just kind of talks. I think it's just chilling. It's actually just called a happy hour, but, I mean, if you're at render next week, anybody who's listening, and, you know, you just kind of like standing there, don't know. Just, come get me. Just come walk up. Say, what's up, man? I'm like, yeah. Well, I think most people are like that, right? And, and I think, I think that's to approach people. And here's the deal. Like people are like, Taylor, you're such an expert. I'm really not. I've been mentally prepping for next week.

Cause I'm literally, I'm going down there the 30, 31st for with the ambassadors. So I'm going to be down there from the 31st to the 4th. Like I'm based on a week in Atlanta. And like I've been prepping myself mentally to like figure out how to navigate these next four days to be a lot of socializing, a lot of networking. But I will tell people this. I think guys like can't. And a lot of guys and gals down there are going to be more than open to talking to you. Oh, yeah. Because they feel the same way that you probably do. And they would rather honestly, I'm sure they would, the speakers like can would much rather talk to you and you ask them questions, then them actually just kind of stand there awkwardly too.

Trying to find someone else to talk to. Oh, yeah. Sometimes I'll be sitting there. I'll just walk on my little toe. And I'm like, Hey, you guys doing? I know. I want to get to a few comments here. William, what's going on? It's good to see you talk to me if you don't feel it. Yeah, go. Yeah, go find will. Mike comes in. You'll remember me is the only guy talking to say the chat. What up, Mike? I love it. What did I see here? Yolanda is going to be there as well. Obviously, Mike convinced my company to send me and my teammate to render.

Nice. I love it so much. Yeah. William comes in. Yeah. I like to talk to people more than the 10 talks. All day long. Patria, great advice, Ken. Let's see here. Happy Tuesday. It's great to see you. James comes in. It's been my experience of being yourself. It's one of the best things you can do in your career. But then you have bear going. Being myself is not in harmony with office politics. That has hurt my career from time to time. So interesting. Right. There's definitely some people kind of post-time. Yeah. Yeah. Read the room. Mike, all birds make me mad. Come be the okay.

I'm just talking. I don't even know where I need to. You got to get like this slip on once. Not there. Yeah. Yeah. Like the houselovers. Yeah. So Ken, I want to kind of move into kind of more branding, more networking, kind of give some people a little bit more kind of tactical advice. So you kind of leaned into your beats behind you. Right. It looks like you have a laboratory behind you. You really have a lot of people. You really leaned into that. You post about online. You're kind of this outspoken individual online. What what what cause you to lean into that? Because I think because I kind of want to get like the origins of what cause Ken to lean into those things.

Because I think some people need to go ahead and just lean into their strengths, but they're probably concerns. I really wasn't an option not to. Okay. What do you mean? Like what do you mean it wasn't an option? Like you just were like, listen, I'm just going to let people know what I do and that it is what it is type thing. I'm just not going to pretend to be a nerd. Like. Do you know what I mean? Like I get it. Like you can keep it clean, right? But like sure. Yeah. Like a lot of like the mainstream tech culture. I haven't really been a fan of.

So I think it's a really good idea. I'm like tech culture. I haven't really been a fan of. So I'm like not going to like pretend to do that. Text me. You know what tech culture is a little weird. Yeah. Because as an outsider as a recruiter on the outside viewing tech Twitter and the tech community. For as much as the community preaches diversity and inclusiveness and open to thoughts, there's a lot of shade being thrown all the time. Indeed there is. And I just don't get it. I just don't get it. I think that. If you aren't being yourself people can tell. And if you're trying to sell something up to and including yourself.

People. People will trust you. Or you know believe in that if if if they believe you're telling the truth and I think being yourself is a big part of that. Right. Like if it seems like you're putting on an act or like a little salesman act kind of thing. Yeah. You know the big, okay. The marketing speech right. But like you know like. I'm not just going to like randomly endorse something. You know without. Actual endorsement. Right. Sure. Sure. That kind. Yeah. It's like. I don't know the words to describe that. But. I feel like people know people out there just given lip service and just want to just talk and just run their mouths.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's like you know if I'm like oh well I think this is good. Right. The way they come along you know he's not like. He's not like a paid thing or even if it is a paid thing right. It's like believes in it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So like Mike comes in Ken what's your favorite whiskey? I love it. What's your favorite whiskey? Oh you know that that it that is. Shh. It depends it's seasonal right. Like like like. Like like 16 is in like right now. I don't have any whiskey right now. I drank it all. There you go. Yeah.

But summer is usually bourbon. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like you know I guess like. Typically like woodford. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Classic. Yeah. All right. So as we wrap up here can any any last words of wisdom. Either people going to render next week. Advice to hiring managers. Advice to job seekers. Anything you're seeing in the market just kind of last words of wisdom from Ken Wheeler this morning. Before we sign off. Yeah. I think regardless of what you're doing. A big part of success. At least it's been for me is to be cognizant of your consumption versus your creation. Cool. And try and separate the two so you can focus.

And skew it creation heavy. You know in this ties in the networking and ties in all these other things. If you create things whether it's libraries or content or. You know the less hard. You know the like like you know communities or discussions or you know put that kind of thing right like. If you if you're out there creating things. I that that's what gets you a job you know give a job from watching YouTube videos you get a job from making YouTube videos. You know like so keeping on that right like just me personally like some of the things that I like to do is.

And I don't like to keep communication. There's social media on my computer. I keep that on a phone so I separated by device. Right so if you're on the computer it's business time. And if you're on the phone it's like chat email. Sure. Social media time right separating the two and and and and keeping your balance. And then. And then. Sometimes you got to top up right like sometimes like I'm not inspired with music. And I'll put it down and I'll go and consume a little bit more right go listen to other music and inspire things like that. For code right I'll go and like look at things like read a couple of things get kind of inspired there then come back and and create.

But I think that keeping an eye on that and being. You know a net creator is going to have a professional benefit. I love that. That's my word of wisdom. That was great. I like comes in with a question. What was something that you did to build your brand that you only learn late in your career. But you wish you'd been doing the whole time. Mmm. Because it sounds like you got into the open source thing relatively early right. Yeah. Um. I guess reading the room or biting my tongue a little bit. There you go. Right. Um that would have. So had that been done a little bit earlier.

Yeah. Yeah. It probably would have been positive. Like you know still still a wild boy but. Sure. Way back. Random. It was real wild. I get it. Cool. I love it. All right man. Well y'all thanks for hanging out with us this morning Ken. I was so nice catching up with him live and in person. I can't wait to meet you next week. Um who's staying on stay on real quick as I end it but y'all have a great one today. Uh tomorrow I probably won't be live. I got an early morning meeting. I got a meeting during this time depending on how long it goes.

I may just do a solo show tomorrow. Thursday we got Jerome Hardaway on unicorn finders. My boy Jerome talking about Betsy code on Thursday and then Friday I'm taking the day off. So for all it's purpose could be the last episode of guidance council two for another week and so Ken was on it. Okay. Thank you and then I'm off all next week so be hanging out with Ken. So y'all have a great one. I'll possibly see tomorrow if not. Um I believe I'll probably do a guidance councilor live. Um down at render with the render crew. Um so at least do that. Um y'all have a great rest of the week.

Take it easy. Peace. Hey you did it. You listened to an entire episode and I am very grateful because you know why. there's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finished an entire episode. So I appreciate you so so much for listening. Quick reminder please rate and review this podcast in the app store. I want this to be discoverable to others and the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate and review it. Please like right now. Unless you're driving then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me at tayloratvaco.com or at t-dessin on all social media handles.

And I hope you have a fantastic day.