salaries and ats/crm (solo show)

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Hello, hello. Thanks for listening to guidance counselor 2.0. Listen, I want to give you a quick rundown of what this podcast is and what you're about to get into as you listen to these episodes. We had guidance counselors in middle school. We had guidance counselors in high school, but we didn't really have guidance counselors in college. And now as professionals, we don't really have anybody to turn to to ask a quick question to learn something about the job search or to navigate your career. So that is what I want this podcast to be for you. I want it to be a tool for you to navigate the job search and your career.

So that being said, I hope you enjoy this episode. And if you need to reach me, tailor at vacovac.com is how to get and touch me old-fashioned email social media at TDS&T D E S S E Y N. And finally, please rate and review this in the app store because I want this to be discoverable for others so they can navigate their careers. Hope you enjoy the episode. Good morning. No one's here yet. But good morning. It's just me today. So just me, Nas, we were actually backstage together and technology stinks sometimes. I'm just going to say that technology stinks sometimes. So we are working on rescheduling Nas as we speak.

I'm actually texting her right now as I'm going live. But we're going to get that taken care of. I was backstage with her for the last 10 minutes. We were trying to figure out technical issues and it just wasn't working out. So I'm really excited. I always like the I like the solo shows too. And I'm really excited to hang out with y'all today. I've actually had some emails about some some topics and questions. And so I'm going to get to those. I'm going to get to those today. But definitely more definitely more recuine episodes. If you have any questions, let me know. But as always say, let me know.

We tune in from say hey, again, it's just me today. Nas and I were working backstage. Nas is a engineering manager at LinkedIn. That was going to be my first person from LinkedIn. I've ever had on the show. But we're going to reschedule her. But today's just Q&A. So if you have questions for a recruiter and you've always wanted to ask questions, please let me know. Yeah. But the reason why I tell people to comment, right? I say it's all the time. The reason why I tell people to comment to engage. is to network, right? Like that's networking. I had this question the other day.

Somebody goes tailored. Like how do you define networking? And networking truly is basically a bunch of tiny micro interactions. And it's a bunch of liking and commenting and then moving it into a DM. And then after the DM, it is it's a Zoom call to phone call. And so that's what I want the show to be. And I definitely say, hey, if you're scrolling through, even if you're scrolling through, like later in the day, and I'm not actually live, just a comment. Because there's a lot of people that like use this as a networking platform. I mean, I tell people that if you really do it the right way, I would network off the back of all of my shows.

So I wouldn't network with every speaker I have on guidance counselor 2.0. I wouldn't network with everybody who comments in the comments. Then what I would do, I would go over to unicorn finders, my other podcast that I'm going live with tomorrow. And I would network with every single co founder I've had on the show. If you have done that for the last three years, you will have a very expansive network. And so that's why I tell people to comment and say, hey, consistently because that is the first step in networking to put yourself out there. The second thing is, is this is a live show for a reason.

I want you to ask me questions, right? Especially when I do the solo show, it's kind of me just kind of making stuff up and kind of giving my thoughts on things. So the more questions you can ask me the better, but I definitely want to help you because that's why I did this live show. Another thing too, if you've recently been promoted, if you've gotten a job, a title change, if you've gotten a raise, if you complete a really complicated project, please, please, please, let me know. I want to celebrate you. I think in today's world, I don't think I know in today's world, we're always on to the next thing, right?

Hey, great, I got a raise moving on, right? I want my next raise or hey, I got a title change. Now I want my next title change. And I just feel like we need to celebrate in the moment you. And so if you do, if you've recently gotten a raise, a title change, if you've started a new business or whatever, please throw it up, I definitely want to celebrate you as well. But that being said, I want to give some shots to people who are tuning in today. So we got Chris Bill from New Jersey. I love it. Chris is a Nashville. David from El Paso, Texas.

I love it. Kylie, it's going to see my friend Jay. Thanks for tuning in. Colin, what's for lunch today? Colin, nothing's fun for lunch today. Yesterday was fun for my birthday, but today, we're just on the health cake now. We're doing some chicken and potatoes, you know, pretty simple. Victor, absolutely. I wanted to give, if you're not on, so if you see this, you're like, what's the community he's talking about, I do have a texting number. If you want immediate access to me. So, so to let you all know, I only check my DMs on social. Pretty much once a month. Maybe twice a month.

That's it. So if you message me on LinkedIn or on Twitter or any other social media platform, the DMs, I won't get to you probably for a month. If you want to get in touch with me faster, join my texting community. My number 615-235-5650. Yes, it's primarily for US only. I know there's a lot of people in India and Africa who want to be involved in my texting community. I'm thinking about doing a WhatsApp, but that's more to come there. Marshall, it's great to see you run that mouth. Jonathan, is that you? Actually, I'm going to come over your recent email. I'm going to get to Fritz and it's great to see Michelle.

I love it. Look at that. Mitch and Michelle. We got two on YouTube. I love it. It's great to see LinkedIn user. It's great to see you as well across the pond, as they say. Let's see here. Good morning. I love that. We can talk about that. Christina, it's great to see you. Paul, my guy, what's going on? Kevin. Coffee. What do you mean coffee? Of course. I'm going to drink coffee right now. Right now. Let's see here. I love this. Anybody working through your question in a second. Alex, good morning. You should do kind catch. I would love that. What is that? What is that, Christina?

Justin, it's great to see you. Molina, it's great to see you as well. Sweet. We got the crew this morning. Yeah, Marshall here. Let me throw that up again. Again, if you want to be in part of my texting community, and you want immediate access to me, please join my texting community. So there you go. That is my number for the texting community as well. Let's see. I got more people to it. And JC, it's great to see you. Rabin, it's great to see you. Alex, it's great to see you. Cool. Awesome. Man, we got the crew today. It's great to see you. All right.

Cool. So first thing I want to go over, so I'm going to pause the music. First thing I did again, if you're here to see Nas, Nas and I had some technical difficulties. We had to reschedule. She's going to come on next month. We were backstage about 10 minutes trying to figure out her camera wasn't allowed an access to Streamyard, and then her phone had to make her lag. It just was not. It just was a lot. So we rescheduled. So again, if you're here to see Nas, I'm sorry. You're disappointed. What up? What up? Uncle Don, it's my uncle. What up, dude? It's good to see you, man.

Hope you're doing well. Cool. All right. So first thing I want to talk about, I got an email from my friend Jonathan. Jonathan, I think you're watching right now. So I wanted to go to this first recruiter advice question. How does an applicant better leave salary expectations as a negotiable by confirming the range is acceptable? Heard this morning a company was going with a candidate in the process when I asked for feedback in decision-making process or interview performance to CEO told me it came down to salary alone. The other candidate flat said they would take 55,000 less Jesus in the range. Is there anything I can do there or it is?

Jonathan, this is a great question. This is a fantastic question. I think when it comes down to it, Christina, thanks for the shot out girl. I think when it comes down to it, I think it's a great question. I think it's a great question. What I would do is I would give recruiters as much data points as possible. So for those of you who did not hear the question, basically Jonathan got beat out for a position because it can't take 55,000 less. And it definitely seemed like the company didn't go back to Jonathan and ask him this. Now here's the deal. Jonathan, I don't know if you really want to take 55,000 less.

Right. And I doubt you. And so that's something. I think in this certain instance, it's probably it is one of it is what it is. But I would tell people this when it comes to when it comes to negotiating salaries and working with the recruiter or working with a hiring manager, all that, you need to give us, I like three data points. I like three data points. I like, what is your absolute minimum? What is the absolute minimum salary that you would accept? Base. Base. Base. Right. The set. Because total comp, a lot of people speak in total comp, total comp gets weird. Right. Because it just, there's so much more involved in total comp than just base plus bonus plus equity.

Right. There's HSA. There's a cell phone plan. There's healthcare plan. I mean, heck, my brother works for a vent, right. They give him a $750 stipend ever year to go by gym equipment. Right. I mean, you know, stuff like that. So don't talk total compensation. Talk base. Right. Hey, recruiter. Hey, Taylor. My lowest is 150K. I am currently around. Listen, I get it. If you don't want to give your current salary, I understand that. I would prefer it because I need to know where you're at. So I don't waste your time. So I feel like, hey, Taylor, my minimum's 150, but I'm at 175. And my ideal, a no brainer is 200.

Okay. So Jonathan, in this case, three numbers here. Right. 150 is your bare minimum. I'm currently around the 175 mark. And I would ideally with, I will, I will sign on the dotted line with no questions to ask a 200K. Right. And so all that being said, those three numbers can help me guide you through the interview process. I saw a TikTok the other day. I think it was yesterday. Of a recruiter, basically making fun of himself that he has to go back to the hiring manager and tell the hiring manager that the candidate basically needs another $50,000 more because other offers came in. And that happens a lot.

Right. Now, that's another thing to do with the recruiter. Right. You need to constantly update us. If you work with me and my team, we're always trying to recalibrate where you're at the job search. We've had so many people. Like we started the interview process at 150 and they told us 175 and 200 like those three numbers. And then by the end of the interview process, 200 is the bare minimum. When they originally said 150 was the bare minimum. Right. So again, it changes, but you constantly have to keep up with recruiters and communicate and be intentional and all that. So again, that Jonathan, hopefully that answers your question.

I want to give a shot. A few more people tuning in this morning. Jonathan, it's great to see you. It's really great to see you. Absolutely. It's been a minute, but it's great to see you. Let's see here. RJ comes in. If not for any of the reason, talk based because that's how bills get paid. Yeah. I mean, again, right. Again, I would look at base for sure. Erica, it's great to see you. I had good luck. Michelle comes in. I had good luck with saying where I would like to be to make a nerve brainer, but I didn't get my. Yeah. And again, that's fine.

Right. So I'm going to give you a current pay. I know there's a lot of states now that like you that like basically tell it like it's it's illegal to give your current pay. And I'm like, listen, I totally understand that. If you're working with me though, I would prefer if you trust me, I would prefer you to give me your current pay because what that does is that at least allows me to not waste your time moving forward. I want to get to another question. Actually, Jonathan, Jonathan, you know, he's he's a wealth of knowledge and he emails me lots of questions, which I really like.

So basically, Jonathan messes me. He messes me back in February 10. Right. So it's been 12 days. And he goes, you know, wanted to kind of give you a scenario. Right. So basically what Jonathan's scenario that he laid out and I want to talk about this because it's very applicable. And my brother did this too. And my brother's going to be on the pod. And we're having a family in person podcast in two Tuesdays from now. I'm very, very excited. But basically the the the scenario that Jonathan that he messaged me was basically he wanted to basically submit his information to cloud flare. And so what he did was basically he went on his he went on.

He scanned cloud flare for any mutual connections. He had nine of them. Right. So again, like Jonathan identified Jonathan identified the company wanted to work for cloud flare. Then what did he do? He went to the LinkedIn page of cloud flare and went to the employees tab and went to see who he has connections with. So Jonathan ended up realizing that he has nine individuals that he had mutual connections with one worked in sales. And I played sports with him in high school. And so he reached out to that person to see if he could get a hiring manager intro. The next thing that happened is that individual made an introduction with CC he CCed.

And basically it was directed to the recruiting department. After that, Jonathan sent the request message. And then that recruiter applied to the request, but didn't accept it. So now I get free messages to him. Plus he's for it to me along. Lesson learned learn your systems, your constraint by levers them to your advantage. And again, I love this so much. I love this so much. Because what Jonathan did is he picked out a target company wanted to work for. He then went to that profile. He then found mutual connections. He then messaged those mutual connections. And here's the deal, right. Jonathan messaged this guy. I doubt Jonathan kept up with this guy from high school.

So many people get really weirded out about messaging people called listen people want to help people. They really do. Like we're inherently good. People are inherently good. And people want to help you. Especially when it comes to the job search. And a lot of those people get a referral fee. We've talked about this a lot. Never submit your information until you check if you have a friend there. Because that friend can get compensated if they place you and they can be your internal advocate. Right. Like if I'm going to bat for you at Vaco, like people are going to listen to me because I've been at Vaco so long.

And you're going to have a better chance of getting in the door than if you were to do it alone. So leverage those mutual connections. So Jonathan, thank you for providing me those two great nuggets today. Daniel comes in here out of curiosity. Do you use ATS in order to search for the right candidate or is it a human interaction? The reason why I asked about this is because I keep between emails from recruiters like yeah job bot cyber rights, same as skills match while in fact it doesn't. The opposite of what happens. So yeah. So Daniel brings up a great question here. And it's so funny.

I feel like Al Borland or who is the next door neighbor on Tim the tool man Taylor, Tim Allen. Home improvement. I think it's Al Borland. Al Borland was his partner Wilson. I feel like Wilson right now. And anyways, all right, cool. So I love this Daniel. So I we used something called a CRM. But you know, but at the end of the day it's like an ATS. We use bullhorn. But we don't use automated searches because what happens is is automated searches. Thank you. Melina. I see it Wilson exactly. When it comes to it, no one's going to be able to match. No algorithm is going to be able to match your resume to a job description perfectly.

That's why you know, if we talk about open AI and chat GPT and all of this stuff, basically when it boils down to is we will never be replaced because it's never it's never good thing. Job bot, I know they're kind of thing is like we built this algorithm or software that matches. I mean, it may get them 50% there, AKA you do JavaScript. And it's a JavaScript job. But let's be honest, there's so many intricacies in that. That it just is hard to match up. So yes, Daniel answer your question. My team we might the company I worked for, Vaco, we use a massive massive software called bullhorn.

But we don't we don't do any automated stuff. But I will answer your question. Actually put up a video last week about this. The ATS does not reject your resume. Human beings reject your resume. ATS is just a it's just a software to keep track of resumes. If that makes sense. At the end of the day, human beings are making the final decision. Wendy, it's great to see you this morning. Uh, Kylie comes in here. Let's see your right. ATS are written by humans and humans. Yeah. And I think it's not really exactly. It's a Kylie comes in. My fellow recruiter friend, there are a lot of companies that are using AI recruiting, not ideal working with an agency or specialist.

Yeah. Again, Kylie, Kylie works for an agency like myself. She gets it. It's so nuanced. It's so nuanced that it's never going to be it's never going to be a hundred percent in my opinion. Um, not worried about AI, just fancy search edge. People make things happen. Yeah, people are the things making but yeah, Emmett says it may get you close, but you need the relationship part. Is there a topic today? There's no specific topic. I was supposed to have an engineer major from LinkedIn on and we couldn't figure it out software on the back end. So if you have any questions, please ask them.

Uh, Cheetra, listen, that is probably the biggest compliment. I love Cheetra to death. And the fact that I was in your dreams last night, um, that's great. I love that. Uh, what else here? Anybody's got any questions? Um, uh, I had a topic I was going to talk about, but I went into Jonathan's email first. And now I have drawn a blank. Cool. I think that's it. Let's go ahead and call it. I've been on for 15 minutes. That's long enough. Um, sweet. All right. Well, if you have any more questions, uh, with a couple of questions now, um, um, I do want to give a shout out to, um, that conference.

So that conference, I actually need to pull it up. So that conference, I need to create a banner. Um, if you haven't checked it out yet, go to, go to that conference. Um, they have their Wisconsin. If you're a speaker, they have their, they have their, they have their Wisconsin conference in July. Call for speakers out. So check that out. Also, there are the coffee sponsor, um, for this show. And I need to promote them more. So Clark, I'm sorry. I'll do better on that. Um, but yes, uh, check out. If you like coffee, um, he has amazing coffee beans. I'm drinking it right now.

And as you can see on here, that's his coffee right here. So check out that conference. Um, I have some questions coming in. Good. Um, good. So, so we don't have to end yet. Um, I honestly could be here all day, um, but we also have jobs together. Go do, uh, let's see here. Um, Michelle, I know a good number of junior devs watch your lives. What do you recommend them to do to get the roles that they say they want? Entry little 35. So here's the deal. Um, the more and more I've talked hiring managers about job descriptions, the more and more I realize that like everything's fake and no one knows what's going on.

Yeah. I'm just going to be totally honest. Um, I would say at this point, at this point, if it is a, so in my opinion, there's a difference between an entry job and a junior job, right? Entry is no experience. Junior is like one to two kind of years experience. Um, if it, if it is in the same area of, area of seniority, right? So your entry, you're applying to a junior, go ahead and submit even if it says three to five years. Because at the end of the day, hiring managers are not the ones writing the job descriptions, HR is the one writing the job descriptions.

Right? So they're all just fake, which is ridiculous, right? So, but I had a junior dev the other day submit the resume to an architect level job. I was like, come on, man, like I appreciate the enthusiasm, but let's be real here, right? So again, that's my thoughts there. Um, LinkedIn users are getting tired of the grind at large employee companies. How do, how the heck do I find these early stage startups like 10 and 20 employees that love the craziness but seems companies that the stage never use recruiters? Yes. So, uh, what I would do, I would go to unicorn finders and I would go and search all the people on my show and I would message the founders of how do I show and say, hey, I'm a friend of Taylor's Jonathan.

I don't know. Is this you Jonathan? I don't know. You got a picture name, man, because I know who this is. But basically I would say, hey, listen, like I am, um, I'm tired of the big company grind. Are you looking for any contract work, part time? Um, you know, I found you through unicorn finders. Right. And that's what I would do. I would literally, I mean, that's why I created unicorn finders to create community for startups early stage, you know, pre revenue, you know, series A series B series C type client. So, um, I would check that out. That's my, that's, uh, that's my thing.

But honestly, this is a great idea. So I thanks for putting that, um, thanks for putting that in my brain. Uh, Wendy, I interviewed for a position January. So I'm not heard back. I love all these questions. You know, I appreciate it. I did reach out to the HR department and then they said they were still working through the process. They are a new school. So probably had a lot more now, but I'm trying to make it. Maybe you're a physician. Anyway, uh, yeah, that's, that's, that, that's a long time, Wendy. That's a long time. Um, I, I would, I mean, I would get really specific.

Right. Like, so I would email them back today, but like, hey, I know the last time we spoke, you said you're, you're working through the process. Can you like let me know exactly what that means because do I need to move on or do I need to stay engaged? Because here's, as a recruiter, if a candidate messes just me, I've talked about this and I'm talking about working with recruiters. But if you mess with the recruiter, like, hey, listen, like, I haven't heard from you. If you don't like me, that's fine. Just let me know. I'll move on. If you give them the out, they'll tell you.

So Wendy, I would message HR and just like, hey, listen, can you give me specifics? What do you mean working through the process? Is there no funding? Do you still have to like get approval for the position? And you know, internally, like, what does that look like? So that way I know if I need to move on or not. That would be my suggestion. Really call them out and really get specific in your email. How do you get LinkedIn for free? I, everyone starts with LinkedIn for free. Kevin, just create a profile and that's free LinkedIn. I think that's it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely Alex. I love hanging with you.

Oh, yes, that conference. I love, I need to talk about it again. Clark. I'll talk about it more. I'm sorry. My current role was an intermediate job description, but they're exactly this, this, this, right here, this incredibly important, incredibly incredibly important. It's not the best time to be shopping for new jobs. I mean, I mean, here's the deal. Our team's hiring. I mean, it's just we're just not at the clip that we're at, right? So again, I mean, I think, I mean, I think you can jump now, but you just got to be intentional. Ask questions. Hey, do you guys expect to lay off? Hey, what is, what is your, you know, funding look like?

You know, what's your run rate? You know, yada, yada, all that stuff. Malini goes, it's not Jonathan. Okay, all right, sorry. Let's see here. You can get LinkedIn premium for free if you're a veteran. I did not know that. I love that. Daniel, I tell her. Uh, when you'll start, when will you start coaching for tech guys in order to get focus on self improvement line or for example, I've been doing a lot of stuff over the past 16 years by struggle to sell myself. It's not hard to find people who coach us to sell us with properly. Um, I know we're sure that come, but we're not interested only in the money, but being part of the company and solving problems.

I'm just going to promote it. Uh, I got to read this again. I've been doing a lot of stuff over the past 16 plus years. I started to sell myself. Everyone does. Um, it's hard to find people to, it's, it's hard to find people to coach us to sell us. Um, so I will do this. I mean, listen, I'm just going to promote it. Um, Daniel, I offer coaching services on the side. So if you want that, shoot me DM, we can talk all that, but that's something I do offer. I did actually do a special one on one. Um, I did do a one on one session with one of my buddies daughters who just graduated college.

And we spent 45 minutes going over just her intro elevator pitch and then three weeks later, she got a job offer. So, um, I do offer that. Uh, see here. Cool. That's it. All right. That's definitely enough of me running my mouth today. I appreciate y'all. Thank you for hanging out. If this episode resonated with you, please share it on your LinkedIn. If you feel like if you, yes, and, and Christina is also very good as well. Um, if, uh, if you like this episode, please share it. If you think somebody got something out of it, if you got something out of it, please share it because other people will probably need as well.

Thank y'all so much. Tomorrow unicorn finders. I'm hanging out with Brian Douglas from OpenSoft. Um, so I'm really excited about that. And then Friday I will be back with a recruiters anonymous episode, um, diving in to the recruiting industry world as well. So I'm really excited about that. So y'all have a great hump day. Appreciate y'all ton. We'll see you all tomorrow. But you know, more finders. Bye. Hey, you did it. You'll listen to an entire episode and I am very grateful because you know why. There's a lot of podcasts out there. There's a lot of episodes and I myself rarely finish an entire episode.

So I appreciate you so, so much for listening. Quick reminder, please rate and review this podcast in the app store. I want this to be discoverable to others and the only way that happens is if you take the time right now and rate. And review it. Please like right now. Unless you're driving, then don't do it. So thank you again. If you need to reach out to me, tailor at vaco.com or at t-dasting on all social media handles. And I hope you have a fantastic day.