the grueling job search w/ bradley stokes, vp of it

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Tik Tok here. We live. What's up, y'all? Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I'm on day seven of battling this cold virus. It's actually a virus. It is not a cold. Uh my wife took the kids to the doctor and they got tested. Um it is a virus and it stinks. Uh it is awful. Um it feels like strep throat now. It's just like a full like the amount of I I I'll just say this. The amount of congestion that came out of me this morning was wild and I'm still congested which is crazy. So anyways, pumped to have Brad on the show today. Um please say, "Hey, we love to hear from you." Um again, I tell people this is like a networking meetup virtual thing, right?

Um you know, again, I think our behaviors have changed because of COVID. We're at home a lot more now. What I realized early on in kind of this whole um kind of career, you know, arc that I'm doing right now is like I think people would rather just hop on a 30 minute like meetup where I can get a guest like Brad talk about his job search and hop off for the rest of the day and message Brad, message a few people on the chat and um you know uh off and away we go. So again, if you are tuning in um please say hey would love to hear from you.

I've known Brad for a bit. Uh Brad has been in my network now for a few years. Um, and this is the first time we've gone live. So excited to have Brad on. Before we uh jump into everything, want to give a shout out to AppRight. Um, I'm a part of their heroes program. Like I always joke, I'm probably the only uh non tech non-technical person on a technical heroes program. Um, so my pitch is uh they're cool people. They just released something pretty cool. You should go check it out. It looks fun. So that's my pitch. Um, next thing uh we're doing a bunch bunch of stuff in the Torque community.

Um, so go check us out torque. Community. My guy Jason actually just pushed out a few releases to the web page. It actually looks good now. So, shout out to Jason for making our web page look good. Finally. Um, finally, uh, shoot me a text if you want to know when I go live with guys, uh, with guests like Brad. Um, this actually me. It's not some AI number. So, would love to have you let me know. All right. So, starting to get people tuned in. I I forgot to send some text out. So, uh, we're slowly getting some trickle in this morning. But, enough of me yapping.

Brad, let's give the people what they want, man. just who are you? What do you do? Uh and we'll go from there. Yeah. Awesome. Well, yeah, thanks Taylor for having me. Um you know, it's great to finally connect this way. It's feel like we've chatted over a long period of time, but then not chatted, right? And had these kind of conversations. So, it's fun to do this. So, appreciate you having me on. So, yeah. So, IT leader um have been an IT leader now for gosh 15 years plus. um primarily in I'll say the startup private equity scene. Sure. um which you know by itself has its own sort of challenges and churn right um you know we just went through a exhaustive job search hence why we're kind of chatting today right and you know talking about the sort of good the bad the ugly of what that looks like and I think you know my message has been you know and kind of the reason why we're chatting is you know through the uncertainty of the economy and um whatnot like it's happening to a lot of us at all different types of levels and I think it's important for people to kind of understand that, right?

So, um, so again, happy to be here. You know, that's my background is in IT leadership. Um, and then and then tell tell me about triple point. Yeah. Yeah. So, currently with Troll Point, um, as their vice president of IT, uh, they're a we're in the mechanical engineering business. And so, what is that? That's electrical, plumbing, HVAC in the commercial space. Okay. Primarily, our customer base is going to be, think of data centers, universities, hospitals. Um, and we're basically a portfolio of companies. So, we just had our sixth acquisition um earlier in uh April um out of Richmond, Virginia. And so, we're trying to build the biggest u mechanical engineering company in the country.

And we're awesome. Number six or so right now. Cool. That's cool. That's awesome. All right. So, a lot to dive into today. Um first off, how long were you on the job search for? Yeah, almost seven months. Okay. Seven months. All right. So I think a lot of people I think a lot of uh people that I know developers are like oh the more senior you get the more jobs like the easier it is for you to navigate and I would almost argue it's like the opposite. I would argue that with greater risk or greater reward comes greater risk because because it's it's a lot harder to find on your level kind of um kind of that um that perfect fit.

So man, talk about just uh talk about what worked for you, right? Or how about let's not even do that. Let's talk about what not did not work. Let's start there. We always start with what works. Let's talk about what did not work. Yeah. So I think you know probably like a lot of us in that job search market like it's very easy to take the easy path i.e. LinkedIn job postings, apply for a job, you know, kind of apply and forget it. Yeah. Um, and really, you know, as I probably already knew that going into it, but I think kind of to your point, like, not that I thought so highly of myself, but like I thought I would find something pretty quickly.

So, you're a senior dude. You got a great pedigree. You got a great pedigree. Yeah. Yeah. You get into that rhythm and I'm like, "Okay, I'm applying for jobs. I've applied for 50 jobs. I should be good to go now, right?" And really nothing crickets, right? Right. And so I think what you find there, which you probably no surprise to you and maybe some in your community is just that the ease of that has actually made everyone's job much that much harder because I mean heck even when I look at applications now that I'm employed again for other people like people apply for jobs that have no business applying for the job that they're applying for.

And then there's people that really are so high level I'm like why are you applying for this job? Because this job is not a fit for your skill set because you're here, right? And so I think I fell into that rhythm of like the easy path, right? You know, again, because historically I've had fake activity is what I call it, right? And that's why I say my talk like activity does not equal productivity when it comes to the job search. No, that's a perfect example of that, right? I think there's this idea that you're busy, you're doing busy stuff, right? And that that busy stuff doesn't necessarily translate into into results, right?

So definitely, you know, quickly found that that was, you know, again, probably not a big surprise, like did not work, right? I think also you take for granted like the networking, right? I think we all say, "Hey, networking, networking, networking." And I feel like I do a lot of networking, but at the same time, I think doing networking for networking sake is not the same thing as networking from a job search perspective, right? And so I think you take for granted, at least I did, hey, I have this good network and the community I'm in, you know, like between someone I know, I I'll find something pretty quickly, right?

And I kind of relied on that at least at very early on. And so those two things clearly were like not the right path, right? And I had to, you know, very quickly sort of um pivot in terms of like this is not working right. So yeah, talk talk about All right. So I I'm going to kind of So let's talk about applying to jobs. What did you do to pivot from that? Like all right, so you're in I mean seven months is a long time, right? So you know what what was kind of like that? Was it the for was you spend three months kind of cold applying and then you pivoted?

What was kind of that like? It was it was a combination of things. So I did have some good traction early on. So I think again kind of for lack of a better word, I got kind of lazy like, hey, I got a couple good opportunities, right? I don't need to, you know, continue sort of this hardcore, you know, search that I was doing, right? And so I think it was a combination of, you know, I've applied for a lot of jobs. I have a couple really solid leads. I'm, you know, went through a couple different interview rounds. Like I'm good, right? And so yeah, out of that I found which which a lot of people now find right which is you know kind of again the difference that people kind of anticipate at my level versus either lower level opportunities or entry-le opportunities is that I got ghosted right I got ghosted on some things right didn't hear ever hear back you know or I made it and I was runner up and really had no reason no idea why I was runner up like what what happened for me versus the other guy or the other person right like so I think those were all interesting kind of like, "Oh, wow.

This is all right." So, now I'm a couple months in. Um, you know, applied for a bunch of jobs. I've been a runner up twice. I've gotten ghosted. Oh, crap. And guess what? Now it's the holiday. So, my, you know, going back to seven months, this all started for me in September, right? So, yeah, my window was kind of September through Novemberish, right? And so, um, that was my sort of triggering moment of like, okay, I need to I need to to kind of totally pivot and really think the rethink the job search because we're going into a slow time around the holidays. Like, I need to really build something out so I have a runway.

So, when January hits because at that point, I mean, I'll be honest, like kind of said, "Hey, nothing's happening, right? I'm not going to get a job offer between now and January because yeah, the market." Yeah. I mean, you had the election, you had a bunch of news on the job um front in terms of the jobs report, you had a couple interest rate cut announcements, like all that stuff is happening, right? Um so, yeah, so that was my sort of pivoting moment was in that sort of October, November time frame where I was like, okay, I've been a runner up, didn't get the job, haven't maybe been as forceful with the action, right?

And and taking that sort of more, you know, strong approach and then kind of had to pivot. So, what was what was um uh you you said you had some good momentum early and kind of lost it. I want to talk about that because I feel like that happens to a lot of people where it's like, "Hey, the LinkedIn announcement, I'm looking for a job." You know, you seem to have a pretty active kind of network from your LinkedIn post and um you know what what kind of gave you that momentum early on? Was it your LinkedIn kind of your immediate network throwing you? I think it's a combination of things.

I think you know like especially again in the world that I'm in with private equity there is a lot of churn right you might have a you might you know continue to kind of exit every three or four years right so in its nature like I won't say that I'm I'm always on the lookout necessarily but like I think I always have you know sort of ear to the ground and and you know as I hear things or people will say hey there's you know so and so is leaving xyz company like so I think some of that helped me kind of at least initially like I I wasn't like cold turkey like I think a lot of people that maybe you go through a layoff or a job elimination or whatever or cold turkey mean they they weren't prepared for it maybe didn't see it coming rightfully or wrongfully but like then they have to go through the preparation of like I need to get my resume and my LinkedIn whereas I kind of just to some degree stay in that mode.

Oh really? Yeah. So I think because of the market I'm in I don't necessarily know that I'm really doing not really sitting around like waiting waiting waiting. Right. I'm kind of more like I'm going to actively network anyway. I'm going to actively just get my resume updated. I'm always active on LinkedIn because I think it's important to me, but I also like it, right? I want to give back to the community. So, I think those things kind of helped me. When when it first happened, it was like boom, crowds out of work. People kind of, you know, that that you raise an alert for some people like, hey, there's a good person we know, a good candidate, good experience.

Let's see what we can do. And there was that initial really heavy push by some people to kind of propel me, right? And so then then it was busy and it was good busy, but like I kind of let it be enough and maybe it should have been enough, right? No, it's so easy. I mean, listen. I mean, I mean, if you're interviewing, I mean, I I've seen multiple people in my network on LinkedIn say, "I have three final rounds." And then I see them three weeks later go, they all fell through. So, I think it's really easy for human nature to be like, "All right, I got three in the bag.

One's going to hit." But the likelihood of that right now is just not the case. Um, I want to get to Nquille's question. Once your profile started gaining traction, how did you deal with the ghosting or periods of radio silence from recruiters? Any strategies that helped you stay proactive or positive during that time? Yeah. So, I think a couple things, right? So, I think I was pretty open about my search. You know, maybe, you know, I think initially maybe some people, my wife maybe included, thought maybe that was maybe a little bit too open um in terms of like, hey, I just got ghosted, right?

Or hey, this I I was a runner up and didn't get the job. And so I think by doing that that sort of openness and transparency on LinkedIn in a way kind of helped me because it did build in some community support like so if I posted hey didn't get the gig that kind of sucks but I need to keep going on and people would be like hey you got it Brad like so I think there's some of that kind of confidence boost I got from my own community of people right so I think I'm more of a positive person anyway which also helps but I think you know building some a strong network of people kind of really helped support me through some of that stuff.

Um, you know, I think the ghosting, you know, is hard. I think you start to get into a rhythm of like almost like with some AI stuff like you start seeing like the sort of typical trends of how things come through to you. So, you start thinking what's real and what's not real and so you kind of again be more stringent about your approach to what you're applying for and who you're talking to because there is a lot of fakeness out there, fake accounts, etc., right? So yeah, I think it was a combination of like one I'm trying to like take a pragmatic approach to like who I'm talking to and when and being really kind of is this person this thing real, right?

As well as you know kind of put myself out there, right? Which I know is hard to do, Nikquille, like but that's that's what I did. I try to put myself out there so that for the most part what I got back in return from that was very positive community response as opposed to, you know, judgmental or questioning. And even the ones that did, you know, I think, you know, I took some some some opinions or questions from people like, hey, it's kind of weird like why did that happen to you? Like, and it was a fair question, right? Like I often had to rethink and kind of look deeply inside myself to think like, okay, what is this like?

But what did really happen, right? And help me analyze it. So again, that's the way I approached it. But, you know, easier said than done for sure. Um, what um so, uh, let's see here. I got some people to saying that they just got the notification that we're live. So, uh, we got some more people trickling in. So, again, please say hey, uh, if, uh, uh, if you're just now tuning in. Um, all right. So, had some momentum, got lazy, went to maybe some easy apply stuff, that stopped working. Holidays, election, I mean, you're probably freaking out at this point. Yeah, I would definitely say when you look, so I think I posted one time, someone asked me because they were curious about like, okay, well, how many jobs did you apply for?

And I think I for the number was. It was somewhere in like the 700 jobs to a thousand jobs I applied for. And I think to your point, I got I did get into a point in time where I was like, I've never been out of work this long. There's a lot of factors that are not helping me through this process. I need to think through like, do I need to take something less or something different, right? And so, you know, I probably upped my application process in terms of jobs that maybe not were the best fit for me, right? So I did get into some of that sense of and it wasn't even like I'm lucky and that it wasn't necessarily all financial driven, right?

So my wife has a great job, you know, we, you know, been smart about our money. So it wasn't even so much that as much as it was also my personality is just such that like the sitting around in this the sort of mundane dayto-day like you know checked off all the honeydew list stuff like come up with that you can do and so you know you get around the holidays and here in the Midwest like you know that can be a gray dark time as well. It definitely hit a moment where I'm like, "Wow." And in fact, that's at that moment what what happened for me in a good and bad way was I had an opportunity that I ended up turning down out in California because I went out there, we went out there, we house hunted.

Oh wow. The the pay was where it needed to be to kind of make it work. Although we still were sticker shocked by pricing, but like ultimately between my wife's job and our step my stepkids, like that move was so monumental, we just couldn't make it work. As much as we tried, like we tried to say, "Hey, I'll take the role. I'll live out there by myself for a year and then they'll come out in a year from now when my stepdaughter graduates from high school, etc., etc." But like we just could not make it work, right? Yeah. Yeah. But but again, I think the good and bad of that was like, wow, like I'm valued on the on the coast and somehow maybe not valued in the Midwest, right?

And so it was a weird kind of like interesting moment. And again, the pay was like astronomical, like you know, versus what I was making. So it was like how do I kind of understand that and make sense of that? And what I did kind of take away from that was like, hey, again, reminding myself like, hey Brad, you're good. You're you got a good skill set. Like you got a good network. like this is not the time to like pause. This is not the time to feel sorry for yourself. Like instead, what I kind of chose to do was like say, "Hey, look," and I I did purposely at that point in time say, "I'm taking a break.

It's around Christmas time. like I'm just going to basically just pause the job search completely for a few weeks, enjoy my family time, kind of, you know, again, take that as a somewhat momentum builder going into January and then hopefully with the new year and the election behind us and, you know, been, you know, you know, sort of boom, try to like really focus my my surge again in the new year. So, I love that. All right, so you are pretty active on LinkedIn. Um, you have a pretty good community. Um you so like what did you change to get like I guess let me I guess let me just jump let me jump ahead real quick.

How did you get this job? Like I I like let's start there and I want to kind of work backwards a little bit. Yeah. So I think again it goes back to like how you're networking, how you're applying. So this this job opportunity got posted thing got posted on LinkedIn that you know again I'd already made the conscious decision months months back now to say like when I see a job posting I'm absolutely not applying on LinkedIn. I'm going to go right to the job site the career site itself on on the company's page. Yeah. Love that. love because again I I I at that point I'm thinking to myself I'm reducing the candidates they're looking at from you know because then you start thinking about like how do the recruiters get and see these jobs and who is getting jobs right like so then I start thinking that that that number of people applying directly is far far smaller than the the vast number that are applying to LinkedIn and so you know kind of just hey I'm playing the numbers game right so I did that I started actively networking and when I say actively networking so like I'm searching people at the company that would be relevant or I would guess be relevant to the position.

Like so I'm trying to connect with the CEO, the CFO. Yes. And so kind of back to your exact question, you know who I catch it with? I kept it with a board member of the private equity who then responded with, "Oh, that's interesting." Because you had because again my again, not only did I connect with them, I also my my communication was very was very specific. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. Did you like just hit him straight in the mouth of what you can do and what you've done and kind of but I I did it in a way that resonated with him. So I know he's a board member.

I know he's assoc private equity. I said, "Hey, I this is my sixth private equity opportunity here. I worked with Carlile Bane Stelix, you know, blah blah blah blah blah, right? Things I knew would resonate with him." And then also kind of anything else I thought was relevant to the position. So I've obviously been an IT executive. I have some other semi-related construction experience, right? And that's what I you know again very focused message to him and he responded right and so once he responded I said okay let's let's build a communication line start coming some conversation eventually that led to hey send me your resume right I love it step one but that was in January right so this job I didn't get a job until March right so that was in January so like it still required me with followup to him and to others to kind of keep that momentum going like it's almost like I sparked the fire but like I need to keep feeding the right?

Right. And so that's what kind of eventually got me to like get through the process. And I think again what the way you know things I would say I changed and and the search I think helped me ultimately for this job was everything I did was very specific to the job. Meaning like I could say hey I've been a CIO before but like does that there's so much that comes Yeah.

versus like I started thinking through what are their problems like you have six portfolio companies okay I' I've had five acquisitions at my last you know um private equity so I started connecting those dots in a very meaningful way to the point where almost like you can't ignore me like you know I am the guy right like I you like I'm the guy you can't say I'm not the guy because here's all the stuff that you need here's all the stuff I've done um and then I I do things like when I start getting that much momentum like the one thing I always do I

think is awesome O a big game changer for people maybe to hear is like and maybe people do it maybe they don't maybe I'm naive about people doing it but like I do a sort of requirements to experience sort of mapping okay I and I proactively send that to them like I don't wait for them to ask me questions like I proactively say here's the job requirements here's all the stuff I've done related to this thing specifically almost like presentation like to them to say yeah is it a document or is it like a document typically a two column document where I have job requirements

on one side and sort of Brad's experiences on the other side and it's very very specific to the job.

Um you know because everyone says tailor your resume, tailor your cover letter. Absolutely. But I think people there when they hear tailor they're thinking about certain tweaks you know I took it to the next level which was what I did was specifically for the job line by line by line by line again to the point where I'm like you can't ignore this. Like, dude, I love this because I tell people like slow down to speed up. Like, you have to be this intentional in the job search right now because otherwise like, you know, just editing your So, I feel like there's levels, right? There's like, you know, let's let's just mass apply.

Then there's like, well, I'm going to edit my resume for certain jobs. Then there's like I'm gonna I'm gonna edit my CV and my resume. Then there's like what you did where it's like, hey, I'm taking the job description and I am line item by line item of what I can do. I mean, props to you, man. Props to you. That's great. I mean, again, I think that's again, I think that's a game changer, right? Like, you know, again, even in conversations I had when I before I actually accepted this job, other jobs because, you know, that was the game changer for me because I think you had a brief moment when the market got good for a second.

It seemed like, you know, January to like February, right, before things, you know, started kind of going a little bit haywire in terms of the turmoil and tariffs and all that fun stuff. But like I had four opportunities now. I was four opportunities. I was a runner up in one. I had two offers and the other one we kind of agreed to walk away. So, but I almost had four offers like right then. But like I approached them all that exact way. Like you can't ignore this. I love that. That's amazing. Um uh I love this. But Brad put himself out there. Lead by example.

Also, David goes, "Anyone else find it awesome? They stoke the fire and his last name is Stokes." Absolutely no notes. I love it. Um, so, uh, oh man, I had some other thoughts. I think, um, talk about, talk about networking. Did you, what did networking look like with you on the job search? Was did you set aside time to because it sounds like because what what I'm trying to get is it sounds like you were actively doing the networking. And again, I I talk about what you just said. go to the company page or go to LinkedIn. Don't apply. Hit up people in the the the chat or in the LinkedIn that applies to you.

I appreciate that. I've never heard anybody actually do it. Shout out to you for doing that. Not only did I do it, I mean, again, whether or not it worked in other examples because maybe there's some certain companies that didn't follow back up, but like I might get aggressive enough to even say like, "Hey, I'm going to email my resume right to the CHRO. like I'm going to go find that person on LinkedIn. I'm going to try to connect with them in my sort of LinkedIn note. I'm going to be very specific about what I'm what and what I'm doing. And then boom, here you go.

My resume. Like again, can't ignore can't ignore, right? I mean, maybe a little bit too much maybe perhaps, but like again, I feel like that was, you know, kind of where I was at from a mind um set standpoint. But, you know, again, that was my approach. You know, and again I think to your point you mentioned yes you got to do the networking the resume tweaks but I think it is trying to figure out what that next level differentiation is and like for me it became partly that that sort of you know job description requirement document but then I think the question you were kind of asking like my networking changed.

So what I meant by that is I was going to the events hey the local IT tech community events I was doing all those things anyway. Right. Right. So I kept doing that and now I kept doing it with now I'm unemployed right and so that changed a little bit but like I went beyond that again like I think you need to take that next step which is made the connection but then I'm making a connection with a person and I'm going to say let's have coffee right you know I'll let me take you to lunch yes like yes very specific you know not just hey I'm going to the events and I'm shaking some hands and saying hi and hey Brad Stokes out of work now I'm actually going to the people right like I'm going to it may even be like it might not even be someone at the company.

It might be someone that knows someone at the company. Like someone I'm, you know, I'm more closely know this person, so I'm going to go have coffee with that person, talk to them about this other opportunity that they know about, right? Like that's the next level stuff I felt like I had to really do to kind of really get to where I got to in the spring, which was, you know, two offers and, you know, runner-up finish. Man, I mean, you you literally are doing I mean, you literally did everything I talk about. I mean, and and and I've very rarely met anybody uh that has done that.

So, shout out to you. I I think I think I want to go back to just like so let me ask you this. So, let's say let's say a developer, right? Let's say a developer let's say develop let's let's put it up here. Developer wants to work for you, right? Let's say they message you on LinkedIn. Do would you like them to be like, "Hey, Brad, I put together this quick document breaks down job description. Here's how I'm a fit." Or would you like a a simpler DM going, "Hey, Brad, my name is Taylor. I've been developing for about, you know, 15 years. I see.

I have a job spot open. It's really kind of along lines what I do. Would love to chat more. Let me know your thoughts. Would you like to be just hit with a wall of information from the get-go or would you like a little leadup to it? I think it's a mix of both because I think the problem with with maybe the first, you know, example of like just a reachout is there's not enough to hook me, right? Like, hey, I'm a developer that I can do this. It's not enough. Like I mean, I probably get like honestly a hundred messages a day, right? So like that's not going to stand out from those 100 messages.

Same time like if I get bombarded with a bunch of documents like I may ignore that too because again I get 100 messages a day. So it has to be kind of poignant enough where I'm you're like hey I'm a developer. I've built like here's a perfect example. I had a conversation with a potential partner yesterday. Describe quickly a scenario I have and they were like oh we've done that thing for this other customer. So, I think, you know, if a developer came to me and said, "Hey, Brad, I built this thing for the construction industry or I have this experience and I see, you know, it's in the job description or I glean something from your website or from a news article." Like, those are things that I kind of like latch on to.

I'm like, "Oh, this guy actually looked at our page, right?" Or he looked at the the the news on our site and he's actually kind of thought mindfully about, hey, this is what I could do to help you, right? Yeah. And that's that's tough to catch my eye. I love that. I love that. That's awesome. Um all right, so wrapping up here. Um this was great. We should we should do a part two here soon. This is this is so so good. Um what else? Anything else that maybe worked or didn't work that we forgot to just I think you know people take for granted you know sometimes the thank yous and the closeouts.

I think that's one area where again don't don't cheat there. Like I think having a really good you know sort of close off note you know even if the job did not go to you because the market is always such and things happen in our world so quick and so fast like it's thing I think especially in tech like they may think they have an offer out to the next guy or gal but then that person turns it down and who did I talk about this with yes was it yesterday or this I talked about this yes yeah so if you come out hard like ah that sucks I didn't get the job or you don't follow up at all take and continue to kind of maintain that relationship.

The IT team community as you we we all say and it's absolutely 100% true as I continue to see is like it's it's big but it's so small, right? So like those cycles coming back around and like you don't want to ever, you know, burn that bridge. You just don't. Yep. Yep. I love that. I love that. All right, let's uh let's let's wrap it up kind of rapid fire like I always do. First question, tea or coffee? Coffee. Hot or ice? Depends on the season. Winter it's summer. Okay. All right. I I can accept that. I am the crazy man that um when I was in Boston for work in January, it's like 15 degrees outside and I was drinking iced coffee.

That that I because there used to be a lot more Duncan there. So when when my my Duncan days when I was in the south and I couldn't find Duncan, if I was in the north, I'd get as much Duncan as I could. So I not Yep. I love it. I love it. Uh next question. Um, uh, when it comes to just anybody in your network who you want to give a shout out to that's doing really cool stuff, um, is anybody kind of pops into your brain, any leaders, any anybody who's doing some cool things? Yeah, I mean, the one guy that I always talk about is Mike Fulton.

So, you haven't connected with him, kept with Mike Fulton. Mike Fulton is he's been at Proctor and Gamble. He's been at Nationwide. He's doing his own thing now with this thing called Nexus community. He also works with uh, KO as an architect now. So, he's kind of been a a leader to he's a very technical guy still. He's done um he actually brought my wife and I in to speak at a class he teaches at Ohio State on the side as well. So, okay. Super super good dude involved in all kinds of cool stuff. Better than me in a way because he's technical still too and has the leadership component.

So, like he can apply kind of both and I I I missed some of that but yeah, super great guy for sure. I love it. That's awesome. All right, last question. Uh the show is called Guidance Counselor 2.0 I know cuz you had guidance counselors in middle school, high school, and college, but now as adults, we don't really have them. If you can go back in time and tell young Brad something career advice-wise, what would it be? Oh, wow. That's a tough one. Um, I think it really is. I think there's a lot to be said about having confidence in yourself and taking that chance.

Yeah. Um, I think that's a scary thing for a lot of people, but I always feel like the risk is so low relative to the reward that like I think I would probably teach tell my younger self like go for it because you don't have much to lose. Like go for it. Yeah. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about that. I I I would say I don't have many regrets, but I think the one regret is is like to not just go get a nineto-ive right out of college and just like go travel the world, go slum it up, go learn from other cultures, go start a company, you know, fail, do whatever it is you want.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's Yeah. Again, I have kids now that are that age and I'm even challenging them like my son's a remote he was a remote employee since he graduated. I'm like, why are you still living where you live? Like go live on the beach, go in the mountains. Like Yep. I agree. I love it. All right, Brad. Well, thank you so much. Y'all go connect with Brad on LinkedIn. Um he's very active on it. He's he's a gem uh to follow. So, go follow him. Um Brad, stay on so I can say bye to you backstage real quick. Um but we'll see y'all uh tomorrow.

I'm off on guidance counselor. But Friday, um we have the uh the head of direct hire for Ronstead coming on. His name is Andy. Um Andy and I look like brothers, which is hilarious. So, he's in Atlanta. So, we're going to come on, talk about just community building, tech, uh where the market's at right now. So, Friday morning, we'll see y'all 9:30 a.m. Central. Brad, thank you, my friend. And we'll see y'all Friday.