contracting and contract to hire

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All that being said, let's go ahead and dive into a contract contract hire. Why you should do it? Why you should consider. I'm also going to do some questions as well. A little Q&A. So if you have any questions, please at me, comment me. I would love to answer them for you because I know contract contract hire. I've done some contract to contract hire stuff earlier this year. I think it's a topic that we need to talk about a ton. I don't think really any topic in the job search needs to be off the table per se. I think the more you talk about it, obviously, the more comfortable you get with it.

So here's the deal right now. Hiring managers. So from a hiring manager perspective, my role shift a little bit to a hiring perspective as well for working with hiring managers. So hiring managers and candidates that you need to consider contract hire options on both sides. And here's why. First off, the market's so crazy right now. I have candidates taking perm jobs as they are a contract job because they take that as a placeholder and then move on. I've had that happen a few times. But from a contract to hire perspective, candidates, you need to know your value. I think at the end of the day, this issue with contract to hire jobs is people don't know their value.

And so they can't get in 100K, but they don't realize their benefits are really good at their current company. They get really good bonuses. They get really good all this stuff. And then so they take a contract job and then it's like, oh no, I took a contract job, I've touched a higher job and I'm getting underpaid. So the biggest thing is you have to know your worth. So you have to know your base bonuses. HSA's 401k match, PTO, what else? Any other park cell phone, just any other perks that you get, you need to monetize that. So when you go to a contract to hire job, you can calculate all that from an hourly perspective.

Also to ask the recruiter, if you can get PTO, if it's a long term contract, right? If it's a year contract, ask for PTO to be built in and two weeks of bench pay. for those of you who do not know, bench pay is a way for you to stay on billing for two weeks. If in between projects when you're not working, right? So you need to ask that. Edson goes, I'd like your tips to get attention from hiring managers more specific for internal transfer. And so this is good stuff, right? So my thing from to get attention from hiring managers more specific for internal transfer, I think you got to make friends, right?

Any time that I've had internal transfer, I've endeared myself to those people, right? And it takes time, but you have to start partnering with other people within your organization and give you exposure. Also to content does that, right? Content is the name of the game when it comes to all this stuff. And so that's where I would do one, you got to rub elbows, be nice to people within your organization, but also to put out content around that specific division you want to go to. So for me, if I want to get to a national practice, I will post things about national, like a national practice, right?

Or if you want to go into another, another department that develops a certain product, put out content around that specific product, those are two high level things, but the big thing is is network man be kind network. That's the way to do it. Sam, do you know the percentage of people that drop contract to hire mid contract? I was on a team where four people left in a week due to full time. Yeah. So here's another thing too, right? So I guess my thing is, is, is, is I need to talk about this, right? I need to talk about this. When you're on contract, it's a full time job.

I don't know. I don't know where y'all get the notion where if I'm taking a contract job, it's not full time. All my contract jobs are 40 hours a week, W2 through Vaco. You are a full time employee of Vaco. So I don't know where y'all are getting the whole like full time. Now you salary it offers that get, right? That has some things. But do you know the percentage of people that drop contract to hire mid contract? For me, very little. I don't know the percentage, Sam, but for me, it's very little because most all of my contract to hire jobs are true contract to hire.

So people stay on now. If it's if it's a shitty job or the manager sucks or any of that, yeah, they bounce for that. What I would say as a whole, I would say as a whole, people don't bounce if it's contract to hire job. Now if it's a pure contract job, that's a little higher, right? But here's the deal guys. Here's the deal. If you ask the questions, if you ask the questions, here we go. Here you go, Sam goes, but not PTO. I get it. I get it. And this is what you have to ask questions, right? This is why I do this live show to better equip you to deal with recruiters and hiring and hiring majors to deal with recruiters, right?

This is this whole ecosystem that I'm trying to develop. You need to ask the questions, hey, Mr. Mr. Mr. recruiter, if it's a six month contract hire, I'm not going to write in PTO for you because you can take time. I'm overpaying you a little bit. But if it's a long term contract, ask me to work in PTO. Recruiters are not going to give that to you. Recruiters are not going to give that to you. You have to ask. You have to ask. Paul goes great point. I was told when I started my business that you generally wanted to make two X the money you pay an employee.

So take that when you look in a contract, don't take what you make as employee. You're taking a more risk. You can pay more. Yeah, the two X is a little extreme. Knock a lie. You can do that if you don't work through a recruiting firm, right? So typically you make maybe one X, right? Because we have burdens that are in this is nothing to hiring majors. So I'm doing some clients, contract hire bases and some of the hirers go, y'all's contract rates are a lot like y'all are it's highway robbery. Listen, if you use this from a contract hire perspective, our rates are higher.

There's so much involved. There's so much involved from our end that we don't pocket everything, right? And so if you use this from a contract hire perspective, yes, we are more expensive, but we don't keep all that. So just want to let you know that Paul, what you're saying, I get it. I think so for me, for me, high level, take your salary divide by two and then add another 10 to $15 an hour. Right? So if you're on 100K, you divide by two or 2000 hours, your typical individual works 2000 hours in the 2080 hours, 2000 hours with two weeks of unpaid time off, right?

So if you're making 100K, you're going to get $50 an hour. Then what I would do, high level to add in all of your PTO out of pocket or all that stuff, extra $10 an hour. That's what I would do, $60 an hour. So essentially that would be $20,000 extra that you'd be making. High level. We can break that down later. But that's just what I think as well. A lot of great questions. Y'all keep in common. This is great. I love so many questions with contract hire, so many questions. Let's see here. What's the best game plan when I'm two thirds into my six month contract and negotiate for billers?

Hey, listen, I think one, Elliot, again, I appreciate you asking this. I think, have you done any reviews? If you've done reviews, bring those up. I'd also to do some research about what a junior dev makes. For me, what I've seen in Nashville is 60, 70K. Take that for what it's worth. For me, I would ask around. I don't know if your buddies with other junior devs would just be open. Hey, listen, I have a core group of guys at Becca where we all share our salaries and how much we make just to make sure we're all in the same world being compensated correctly. I would do that as well.

Any organization, I just have a few people that like your BFFs with and you're open with because I think that could be a game changer. Help you leverage. For me, I would go ahead and start asking the major, hey, listen, let's have a conversation, let's have a conversation, et cetera, et cetera. You're going to have to drive that conversation, Elliot, for sure. You're going to have to drive the conversation. You need to bring up any performance things you've had. Hey, listen, I've checked this mark off. I've been above and beyond what you guys have given me. Can that play? He has two reviews all very positive.

Do I have buddies? Hello, yes sir. Yeah, buddy, absolute. So bring that up, drive that conversation. But you need to be having that conversation now. You need to be having that conversation now. There's no surprises. Paul goes, oh, it's here. Paul goes, great point. Oh, hold on. Paul, he just comes. He goes, depends on if you're corporate. Yeah. So for me, W2, all the stuff through Becca's W2, right? But again, yeah, more risk, more potential reward. It all depends. Absolutely. Paul, I love it, man. You're very, very smart. How to get contract, kind of out for recruiters and managers. Be sure, listen, man. I mean, I think you got to play the long game, right?

I think you do that well by being on the show. But I think same thing from a recruiter perspective with managers. I think recruiters, I think sales people need to play the long game, right? I think podcasting, putting out content, having conversations where you don't talk about jobs, right? I think recruiters right now need to be playing the long game. And that goes to a completely opposite of what we do. And I'm telling myself this now to remind myself, but absolutely, I think it's a long game. I think it's being kind. It's not asking. It's not taking from people, but it's providing value. How can I provide you value today?

As a recruiter, that's what you need to be asking your candidates and also your companies that you're working with. Kenneth goes, I've been on many contract hard jobs and jobs was the only contract and still got hired because like communicate people and listen, Kenneth, Kenneth bringing the heat this morning. That's some heat from Kenneth. That's it. Here's my thing, right? Listen, if you don't suck at your job, you're going to get hired on contract higher. You used R, even contract. From a percentage, I'll go back to say, I'm just question, what percentage of people do you have that leave? I'll tell you the percentage of pure contract.

I have at least a 50% conversion rate for pure consultants going direct higher. Like just a pure contract because they are good and they go firm and they don't want to let that person leave the door. And it's like, listen, if you get on a contract higher job on a contract job, you just got to be kind. You got to communicate like Kenneth said, you're going to be okay. You're going to be okay. And also find a recruiter who knows what they're doing. I think that plays a huge part as well. Because the typical notion is, oh man, I'm going to go with a recruiter, all man that recruiters quit.

I don't know who I'm reporting to and you're just kind of on this island. It's a disaster. So Kenneth, great, good on you, absolutely. Amy goes, Amy, good morning. It's good to see you. Yes, so much of this process about projecting who you want to be known as. Kind of efficient, productive, knowledgeable. We'll want to learn more. Yeah, again, again, when we're talking about contracting, the contract higher jobs, right? You need to be kind, efficient, productive, knowledgeable, right? You can't go into a contract contract higher if you just sit under the butt. You just can't. Kenneth, I got you, man. I will, absolutely. Let's see here.

Steven, hey, Steven, congrats on the job, man. Congrats on the job. I just can't get on board with this as a man with the family things. Like security benefits, support, absolutely. Country higher jobs. Hey, Steven, listen, I'm not saying, I'm not saying it's for everybody. I'm not saying it's for everybody. But again, congratulations on the job. But I do think, I do think in today's world, you need to look at all the things if you're in a position where you can look at all the things, right? So like Steven, I would tell you, if I can give you benefits, if I can give you a raise, is that enough, right?

Now, it may not be and that's okay. But what I'm trying to do in this conversation right here, Steven is trying to break down the barriers because I think a lot of people are missing out on their dream jobs because their dream job is a contract to hire and they're not even looking at it. Just, that's why they're. Like, could you repeat the formula that you mentioned earlier? Didn't you have that down? Yeah, so you need to know your base. You need to know your bonus. You need to know PTO. You need to know 401k match. You need to know what I say PTO. You need to know like any other perks or anything like that.

Like you need to know everything that you're provided. So this is from a per-m job going to a contract to hire a job, right? So like let's say between your salary, your base, your bonus, your PTO, all of that, it comes out to like 80 an hour. And if I call you and I go, Elliot, I can get you a job at 80 an hour. And then so you can get all. So you can get all of what you want. Like is that enough? It would be for me. If you can't be right now Taylor, I can give you everything that you want in an hourly rate, everything.

But you're going to go work contracting for, I don't know, somebody else. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it, but it's got to be everything, right? Naranda, just hopin' on, loving these gems. Yeah, absolutely, man. Thanks for coming on, man. It's good to see you, dude. Thank you. So Stephen with the heat, why have so many orgs gone in a contract to hire a special ID? I will tell you this. I am vaccinated. If y'all have any other thoughts on this. A hiring managers are tired of HR getting in the way and they want to hire faster. I will tell you this. That is why there's so much contract to hire.

And because here's the deal, right? For example, for example, there's one client right now who want to do contract to hire with me. They flipped it direct hire, totally fine. Now they're having to get sign-offs and that can that's waiting now. That's not bad. Well, you could say Taylor, wouldn't they have to get sign-offs anyways? No, because usually contract to hire, the manager can make that, the direct manager can make that decision and then get them started and then they can start the conversion process a month or two before the end date. And they can do the necessary steps that they charge our paperwork, all that jazz, right?

I would be interested to see if I'm wrong on that. So if anybody watches now in the future, please DM me at me. But in my perspective, if it's a contract to hire a job, typically the direct manager can make the decision on a contract position. If you have to do a salary position, you have to get other people involved. Now I could be wrong. But I will tell you this. Most of the reasons why contract to hire exists in this world, especially more as a blade, is because HR gets in the way, it gums up the process and they lose out on candidates. So for me, almost 99% of the time, the reason somebody wants to do contract to hire is to get them started faster.

I'm telling all my clients I work with across the country right now that like if you can't miss out, like if you have four interview steps, do two and you contract to hire, do a three month contract to hire. Because you can get them started faster, you can evaluate them and then you can let them go if they don't work. So Stephen, that's why I do that. Ah, yes, hourly gets in the way. Yes, HR gets in the way with education and equivalent experience wrecks banging my head on the wall. Yeah, just and again, nothing wrong with HR, I'm technically in HR, but it's just the way it is.

And it's no fault to the realm. Like they're hired for specific reason. But yeah, what else? Contract to hire is up-sized for both for the employer. It's it's a cogs versus overhead for the contractor. It's a good way to be. Yeah, I mean, Rob gets it. I mean, Rob Rob's a friend of Echo. Rob gets it, you know, listen, I think for me, contract to hire is just the way to go. I think from an employer perspective, I think I think contract hire first, but then ultimately if you have a really good candidate who only wants to retire, then yes, I think do do direct hire.

But for me as an organization and as a as an individual, if you're open to contract hire, you need to do contract to hire because let's face it, you can never evaluate a developer in an interview correctly. So what's the way to evaluate them is basically having them working, have a working interview for three months, right? Pay them, right? Have them interview for three months, essentially within your organization and then bring them on full time, we're letting go. I mean, it's pretty simple. But Rob, yeah, absolutely agree with you, ma'am. So true. Devonta, contract hire for someone seeking their first job is a junior dev's a blessing.

It's better than no contract. Devonta, I love it, ma'am, love you dude. All right, so that's all I got today, y'all. Thank you again for tuning. We're at 21 minutes. The contract to hire is always a good topic. So again, I'm gonna continue to do more of the contract to hire stuff, especially through the year. If you have any questions that you want answered, please shoot me a text, DM me. Wouldn't love to obviously keep answering these. I have other people, by the way, if you watch this, you know, I have so many questions. And, but like, I'm too afraid to ask them, live, cause Taylor pulls up all the questions.

Shoot me DM, shoot me an email, TaylorBaco.com. I have a ton of people that shoot me emails and shoot me DM's and like, hey, I don't really want you to throw this up on the wall. But can you answer these questions? So I have some questions that are coming through. So if you have specific questions that you didn't feel comfortable with sharing live, shoot me DM, I'd love to answer this for you. But again, thanks for hanging out, y'all appreciate it. And y'all have a wonderful Monday, and we'll see y'all tomorrow. Peace.