from dinosaur to the digital age

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All right, so today's guest, like I said, it's my dear friend Alex, they Dale, who runs our technology practice. And the title of this is from dinosaur to digital, because Alex is seeing it all. And so without further ado, Alex, give a little introduction about yourself for where you came from and what you do now. Well, you know, saying I run the technology practice, that's taking a lot of liberties to the technology practice runs me. I'm here as a servant leader. And I'm trying to make sure that our team doesn't make the same mistakes that I made back the day, right? So I have a strong believer in failing forward.

And when I think about my journey moving into the IT staffing business back in 1998, prior to that, I was in HR and left, had a master's in ISAcology. So I had sort of the groundwork set for getting into a business of maximizing the person environment fit potential, but moving into the IT staffing world in 98, it was the Wild Wild West. I was in Knoxville. So back then, my territory was the entire Eastern part of Tennessee. And I was covering it with no cell phone. Yeah, I didn't have a ways, right? I had a map, a Michelin map with a highlighter. And I would call somebody at Oak Ridge.

Actually, I would talk to the receptionist. And back in the day, the receptionist was the most powerful person I interacted with on a daily basis, because they held the keys to the kingdom. You have to play nice with the receptionist, to get to the IT director, right? The receptionist was the one giving you the directions and how to get there. Take a left at the red barn, take a right on fifth stream, and then take a left at the blue-tech town and are offices there. So I had the cup holder filled with quarters in case I had to pull off at the gas station and they calls.

Or the second person I got to know were the gas station attendants along the way in case I got lost. So put in perspective, that's how doing sales in general, but specifically being in IT staffing back in the late 90s. That's how that was rolling. So to talk about efficiencies in having the tooling that we have now to do the job, just think about when I make fun of people complaining about lack of tools or anything else. That's where I'm coming from, right? When we were trying to find candidates, we were posting ads in the Tennessee and the Knoxville News Sentinel. So we're our clients.

So what we would do is get the Sunday paper and go through the classifieds and cut them out and hand them out for the sales team to call. I'll shut up for a ramble and you jump in. No, no, no, no, no, no. So you set the groundwork. And so I wanted you to talk about all this because you set the groundwork of what I wanted to ask you. So let's fast forward, sell phones in the internet and the job seeker and hiring managers, right? So again, for individuals who are watching this, if you have questions for Alex about essentially how this industry is involved, we're about to dive in now.

Alex, let's talk about the job seeker first off with what you've seen the industry for 20 years. Give a little sneak, like tell me how the job seeker should be more mindful today. Maybe how it's easier today, maybe how it's harder today. Give a little, let's talk about the job seeker first and then we'll dive into the hiring side of things. Sure. Well, the more things change, the more they stay the same. So, you know, the one hand, yeah, the tooling, the technology, all of that is, you know, it's been 25 years, but it's as if it's been 50 years, right? With geometric growth within technology.

Right. But on the other hand, some of the core principles are still the same. And I'm a traditional guy. So I'm all about their relationship. And I feel like as a job seeker, let's say more from the agency side, when they're trying to figure out from a recruiting perspective, you know, who do they want to have their back? You know, who can they trust? You know, to me, they may be talking to a few different groups to figure out which one maybe two they want to have assist them on their journey. Right. Because if it goes well, if that relationship goes well, you know, some of the names you've read out are people I've known for 10, 15, 20 years in the industry.

Right. And we keep coming back to one another. And it's because of that relationship of trust. And we both want to do business, you know, as a true partnership versus more of that transactional. And sometimes it gets to where, you know, you go through the numbers game and the VMSs and all the other aspects that make it more transactional type of deal. But the business can be done a lot of different ways at how you choose to do business. And if you're like me, you want to know who you're dealing with on all levels. Right. A trusted advisor relationship. And that's both on the candidate, you know, job seeker side.

And that's also on the client side. Because, you know, when I work with the customer, I want to be able to have that relationship. I want it to be portable. So, you know, I might work with them at X-Sos E Company for five years. They go over to, you know, ABC Company. They're going to pull me along with them. Right. That doesn't work out. Then they're on the job market that I'm going to be their wrap. So, again, if I'm rambling, cut me off. But, you know, I start there. It's kind of shopping around to figure out where those relationships, where that matches, of course, the approach, the style, the intentionality, you know, does the recruiter do a five second call with the, or not five second.

Let's say five minutes, then it call and that's it. Right. Or are they one able to get together and copy the whole thing? So, Alicia just asked this question, Alex. And, Alicia, thanks for tuning in, my man. I appreciate it. Alex, how have personalities changed over the years? Do people care more than they used to, or is that a myth? What has changed for the worse? That is a great question. I would expect nothing less than that from Alicia Nove. And so, I think business overall has gotten a lot less formal to some degree. And that's got a good and a bad aspect to it.

Right. I think, you know, keep it real. Really know, let people know who you are, what you represent, and so forth. That could help from a matchmaking perspective on the front end to see if you really drive and collect both ways. But having less formality, you know, I don't know. I think there's some level of professionalism in decorum and respect. That goes along with a little bit more of a formal approach. Right. And some of that kind of goes out the window. So, you know, again, I mean, you know, some people might love the lack of formality. I'll say one thing, going on a client visits and not having to wear a suit and tie every day or just being in the office, not having to wear a suit and a tie, you know, I will if I need to.

And I'll throw the sports kit on. But then I'll probably have the Blue Jeans with the work tennis shoe things that they have now from Cole Hahn. So, you know, that's been a game changer from a comfort perspective. Definitely love that. But, you know, there was something to be said for, you know, making sure that the resume process, like in the old days, people really did care about their resume, right? That was their representation. Now, maybe they cared a little too much because they had to go to Kinkas and buy a certain expensive type of paper. Did you do that? So you're not thinking, well, some people hear like what, but, you know, the old days we would get resumes mailed to us or, you know, handed to us in a very formal style presentation that the facts machine changed everything, right?

Then it was just going, you know, it was facts and the email after that. But again, rambling a little bit. That's one way the business has changed. It's kind of that formality. You, with this LinkedIn live thing, I mean, people really know what makes Taylor tick. So that's the positive aspect of kind of keeping it real and not having a lot of pretense pop and circumstance, right? It was really getting to know the individual at that core level and then seeing where there's alignment. So what do you, and we got a bunch of people commenting Alex. So I already did. Oh, thanks for joining us.

Andrew goes call on or magic for the feet. Alicia goes little spritz a cologne on a resume, goes a long way. Sense of paper. It's sense of paper, Alicia. Yeah. China, Sean, I think factored did something because she agreed. Darrow goes off white linen paper, absolutely. And then obviously, Sean and with the jokes, cologne on a resume. I think that wins. We just lock it down now. Well, you know, you think that business cards are now going the way of the resume, right? I mean, they held out a lot longer. And that bake, we pride ourselves on the really thick business cards. You know, you can use them to twice stake.

But you know, I can't remember the last time I've handed out a business card. So let me ask you this, Alex. So we talk about what's been lost, right? A little bit of respect, a little bit of just a professionalism. So if I'm watching this and I'm a hiring manager, you've been in the industry for 20 plus years. I've been in it for 10 this year. What, what, what's some advice you would give to companies right now on evaluating to use a recruiting partner? And what if they're in another city, right? So, so let's say, so let's say somebody watches this video from us in Charleston, South Carolina.

And they're like, hey, I like to vibe Alex and Taylor. I want to use them. What is your recommendation to those companies that whether one uses us or somebody else fully remote and how to decipher how to use a good recruiting firm or what is a good recruiting firm? Well, you know, again, it's not rocket science. And you can establish rapport and build a relationship even if you're 1,000 miles apart. The contentionality, you know, are you defaulting to a phone call or text or email? Or are you trying to set up teams or Zoom meetings with your out of town candidates or clients? Right. You know, it's still the desire to see somebody, to see the nonverbal, to meet, you know, eye to eye face to face.

Right. You know, to me, I think that's still that matters to me. Right. And not to say you have to do that every time, but I think especially early on is you're really trying to figure out who each other is. I think that's vital. Right. And, you know, just setting realistic expectations on the front end and not bullshitting people. You know, I think that's another way that the job is to stay the same versus the way it's changed. You know, being a true advisor, true relationship, that means you're able to put your own interest to the side and really listen and hear what the client or the job seeker needs and wants so that you can figure out if you're going to be able to satisfy that.

And then being honest and open about capabilities, right? And trying to, you know, advocate for them, but also part of that relationship is saying no or, or you know, disagreeing and being willing to have a healthy conversation and a healthy confrontation when you're going to call it. So, so would you say it's almost a good recruiting partner would almost help you know a lot more than you think they should? Say that it's in a different way. I think it would be a good recruiting partner should be able to have healthy dialogue and push back on some things. Yes. Yeah. If you have the head bob like like the, yeah, sure, uh-huh.

Yeah, I got it. And if you're seeing that continuously, they're either not listening or they're a full of shit. Right. Right. I've heard my crunch. Sorry. This is guidance counselor on hand. What's the house? It's not a nail. Well, I don't like to use too much for family, but, but, you know, yeah, I mean, you're going to, you're going to, somebody, somebody that you trust is going to tell you is going to shoot you straight. They're going to say in a very professional diplomatic way, probably not drop the S bomb. But, um, be willing to disagree with you and collaborate and work together on what the right answer is.

Right. And, you know, if you've been doing this long and if you work for an organization that has a lot of expertise that you can leverage, then, you know, you've got to be that talent advisor that subject matter expert in all things, hiring and staffing and consulting. And so, um, you've got to have the confidence in the know-how to be able to advise your clients or else you're just to pay for pushing transactional staffing firm. And that's, there are plenty of those out there. And, you know, there's a place for this. I mean, there are a lot of clients that they just want to see resumes, they have a VMS, you know, there's, there's no client interaction or whatever else.

And there's some job seekers who they just want to shotgun everywhere. And so, those two groups are a match made in heaven, right? Because their approaches are aligned. But I go back to if you want to work with me as a customer or as a job seeker, here's the way I'm going to want to work. And if you don't want to work that way, you know, there's probably a better option or solution out there for you. Sure. Um, have there 50 times as many competitors now as there were 25 years ago. Right. Yeah, there's 50 times as much demand, 100 times as much demand. So, you know, but I think at least at Vaco, you know, I, as the servant leader that I, that I am here in the national practice, you know, I feel like we developed a culture of, again, developing that relationship in the partnership and the mentorship to be value added versus just being a middle man cog in the wheel, which, you know, I've got to be able to look in the mirror and get up at a bed excited about my job too.

I can't just be, you know, this necessary evil middle man. I, you know, so I think for the relationship, you know, going both directions, you know, what is your value proposition? And, and, yeah, that's a way, maybe it's changed. Competition has, has created that 25 years ago. There was a lot less competition. Right. And so people could get away with a lot more. They were just not, maybe not as good in a lot of ways. And that possibly gave the staffing industry a bad name. I think some of that healthy competition has evolved us into the solution experts that we are. So last question, last question.

And then again, just some comments coming in. Andrew goes, do you miss the handshake? Yes. I like the fist bomb. It's a little more clean. I'm sort of OCD and you've got to have an experience. But I do like the fist bomb. Yeah. What she goes, well, I like that some pushback guidance is collaboration. Loving the inside this morning. Yeah. Again, right. I mean, I think I think you need to be able to as a job seeker or as a hiring manager need to push back on recruiters and be like, hey, why are you doing this? Right. I tell all of my cancer that I deal with.

If you do not like a process or something I'm doing, please ask me questions. I will tell you why I'm doing it. I think a lot of times people can't explain why we do things a certain way. And then obviously, Cheetra talked about networking, Taylor got started me networking, got out of my shell, following talk to people I went to work with. This network has helped me learn a lot more. I appreciate that teacher. So last question for you, Alex, wrap up this morning again. If you all have any questions for Alex on just the journey of the recruiting industry or how to navigate the job search me Alex is one of the vets.

And he actually has some great insight. But the last question for you, Alex, and I've asked everybody in the staffing world this is give me some sort of idea of the job market we are in right now. Like comparatively to what you've seen in 20 years, how would you describe it? What's happening? What should job seekers keep in mind? What should I just give me kind of just a out of the way of the land? So as you know, I'm a geek. Correct. 100-horse Star Trek fan. Big time. And space balls was a spin off or satire, Mel Brooks Special. So anyhow, came out in the early 90s.

They had never seen it. So yeah, that does not surprise me. Right. They had a form of warp drive called ludicrous speed. So that's where we're in ludicrous speed. And I don't really, you know, part of that is from pent up to man out of COVID and everything else. But I don't see it slowing down in the near future. You know, I mean, I know we've got the variant kicking up and got other stuff. But I think enough companies have adopted the remote or know how to put the on-site on pause or whatever. We figured some workarounds. So ludicrous speed is probably here to stay for the foreseeable future.

But don't get caught up in just doing things faster for the sake of trying to keep up. Sometimes you've got to slow down the speed up. And so, you know, take a breath, kick back, really do some soul searching. Think about where you're trying to go. You know, oh, I can make 30 grand more if I throw my hat in the ring for this company. You know, nothing about them. They're completely, you know, funded by, you know, who knows what Bitcoin or something. And so, you know, just, I mean, if you have a high risk tolerance, great in your, you know, earlier in your career, that might be the perfect time to do that.

But I just think, you know, as the world speeds up, you know, life is getting faster. There's more information coming at you. Information overload. Right. Just because you're in ludicrous speed, it doesn't mean that you personally have to be frenetic and neurotic and just running all over the place. You know, you still have a very well thought through plan of attack. Right. Again, align with some key talent advisors that can help you navigate that. Right. You know, and then the other thing I'd say is, you know, don't over-leverage yourself. You know, I've been through the dot com boom and bust. I've been through the mortgage crisis meltdown.

You know, I've been through COVID. So, you know, every five, ten years, there is something that's an outlier that's going to happen. So, but that's, that's more to general advice for anybody. You know, probably financial advice, right? But right now, all the money's being dumped in the technology companies and, you know, developers, especially, are making ludicrous money to go along with ludicrous speed. And that can be, that can be dangerous. You know, it can be slippery slough. So, I think, you know, into the day, it's that self-reflection in your career journey that comes first and then calculated risk along the way. I love that. And same with companies and hiring managers, you know, when to hire, who to hire, when do you go after that, um, blue chip prospects, you know, it's, it's all kind of tied together.

I love that. I love that. Yeah. Well, that's it. That's it. Oh, come on, man. I've got so much more. No much more. So much more. Y'all, thank you again for hanging out with us this morning. Great questions, great comments. Matt triggers. What's up, big dog? Hope you're doing well. Um, and, uh, Alicia, what's the next one? What is the next one? I don't know what the next one is. Um, y'all have a great rest of your Wednesday. Alex, thank you again for coming on, buddy. I appreciate it. And, uh, y'all have a great hump day. Peace.